What is the law of this world?

Question: Raseshwari didi in South of Brazil wanted to know what is our position on stem cells and she uses them in her (?) practice and she wants to know it’s unacceptable or violent, some type of violence? And she said she uses them for her own patients stems, they create stem cells.

Goswami Maharaj: Yes. So, I would just say briefly about this. That we have to accept as a starting point that we’re living in the world of exploitation, which is commonly expressed in the formula, “For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.” Or in the words of the Bhagavatam, jivo jivasya jivanam, one living being lives at the expense of another. Or more to the point, by exploiting another. So, whatever it is, in the world, there is some flaw, some fault, we’re told that in the Gita to in the famous sloka, I forget the Sanskrit. Jai Srila Bhakti Bimal Avadhut Maharaj ki jai! Says, that as when you light a fire there is some smoke, so anything you do within this world there is a dark side to it, you could say, whether be your own or any others, whatever it is.

We don’t eat anything.

Just like sometimes the point comes out about vegetarianism. And people will sometimes say, “Oh, in Krsna Consciousness they are promoting vegetarianism.” But to be more to the point, we’re not. Guru Maharaj tells the story of when professor Sannyal, his brother would come and visit him at the Math, and Sannyal would take a position, that, “We don’t eat.” And his brother would say, “This is ridiculous, see, you’re making fist and you, ‘No, we don’t eat here, there is no eating going on here.’” And his brother would be baffled and bewildered, “Would do you mean? Having a big festival and fist.” Saying, “Oh no, we honor prasadam, but we don’t eat.” So, that’s a reference to the statement in Bhagavad-gita, yagya sista sino santo muchhante sarva kilvise, to overcome the reactions there are acquired, overcome the reactions from acquiring food stuffs, even if they are vegetarian food stuffs, we’re told, that has to be done as yagya. And offering to the Supreme. 

What is the real help to people?

And really not that we just say that also, because anyone can say that. We’re doing it for the higher purpose, “I’m doing that to help others.” Like humanitarian activities, they seem, by examine them, “Oh, this is a very good thing. We’re helping other people.” But if we’re helping people, remain in the world of the exploitation, remain in the exploiting position that is not help in the ultimate sense. So, everything has to be thought of carefully. So, whether it’s this activity or any other activity, we live in the world of exploitation, where for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. How unforgiving this formula is, and how profound it is in its reach is not commonly understood. People think this is something they heard in the physics class in school with some teacher going, “So, when I hit this table or this chair, its, something’s coming back,” they write that down, “Is that gonna be in the test?” And then you’re done with it. But how profound this notion of for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction is. It’s something to be thought about very deeply. So, it’s not just in a gross physical sense, but on a subtle level also, that includes speech, that’s a type of action, speech, thoughts, thinking ill thoughts. We know intuitively, we don’t have to have some research scientist way (?) in on this. We know intuitively, it’s not healthy. It’s not a good thing to think ill of another. Srila Guru Maharaj will put it in this way, “Be meditating on the faults of others they appear within you.” As a reaction. That’s also for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. 

So, sometimes when people would mention to Srila Guru Maharaj, say in the collection of funds to give an example, that some, in the collection of these funds maybe there was some fault. As response for that would be, then they must be cent percent used in the service of Guru and Gauranga and Krsna, otherwise that person will have to try [to] digest that fault. So, the implication [will] be if something is not used cent percent in the service of Krsna and his devotees, then one is culpable in varying degrees and one will have to digest those reactions. That’s the truth of the matter. 

And what did you say Gurudev said about the vaisnava?

Bhakti Lalita Devi dasi: [unclear]…for the service of the vaisnava.

Goswami Maharaj: Yes. And as a side point, there are all kinds of moral issues, that (?) in the Western world on this subject. And it’s not our (?) or purpose to go into that right now, but when (?) to cloning and many different things, genetic engineering, we can say in general, it’s been a moral dilemma for Judeo Christian based doctors and scientists, whereas they found that the Indian doctors and scientists didn’t have a problem with this. Because they thought, “Oh, we have examples of this in the Puranas, Mahabharata.” So, the Puranic literature has many such examples of such things, so they weren’t having the same type of moral dilemma to deal with it. But still that’s said, we’re in the world of action and reaction. Even so called ‘good’ things draw (?) reactions, that’s why we call it saguna plane, nirguna plane. Saguna means colored by ignorance, passion or goodness. Nirguna means without any tinge of mundane quality. So, that is what his answer is, if it’s in connection with the nirguna plane, there’s no reaction. And even if it’s, however well intended if it has no connection with the nirguna plane it will draw a reaction.

As after the Kuruksetra battle one Brahmin named Uttanka (?), he thought, found Krsna and said, “You, Krsna, you are the cause of all of this. Of all this death and destruction, and the reaction of so many widows. So, I am going to curse you.” And Krsna said, “Hold that thought. Because I am in the nirguna plane, and you’re in the saguna plane, you’re in the higher aspect of the saguna plane, you’re brahimin, mode of goodness, by your apasya, your austeries, your spiritual pracites, you’ve achieved some power, and you’re about to expend that power and trying to curse me, but it won’t have any effect on me, cause I’m in the nirguna plane. So, before you’ve spend all that power that you’ve accumulated by your austerities and practices, think about this.”

And you had a question?

Question: I have a question about, you know some new people come, like five people from Moscow and the couple, they’re from different Math, I don’t know the name of their Math, but their Guru is Badai Maharaj. So, I just to try discuss it, I saw at their house th pictures with Siva and Paravati and Dhanvantari, so, I asked them why they keep them at home, because they are devotees, and they say, that it’s okay for them, because their Guru, all these demigods are devotees of Krsna, so, and they stated to explain some kind of philosophy and I’m just not sure should I listen to it, because it sounds suspicious to me, I don’t know how to behave in this situation. 

yanti deva vrita deva patri vrita bhutaniyam bhute jayanti ma ja jinopi mam,

I think, we’ve discussed this a little bit the other day, it’s a question of emphasis. Like, what is descending to us and that’s one process and the other is ascending. We may have some idea, we look at the gods and goddesses of India, and they are charming and on some level they are appealing to us. We can come up with some ideas about that, or there is what is actually descending to us in a spiritual line, Rupa Goswami, the sloka, sruti smriti puranadi pancha ratra bidhim bina ikon tiki harer bhakti utpata gyaiva kalpate. If what you’re doing, your process is not regulated by sruti, smrti, purana, what’s coming in a disciplic line, then utpata yaiva kalpate, kalpata means imagination, then there won’t be spiritual substance there. So, I’ve told on the Siva-ratri evening, we’re aspiring in the line of the Gaudia-vaisnavism, so you will see in the Cahitanya-charitamrta what is the proper emphasis and the method of approach. Otherwise we can say so many things, if we cast our glance toward India, the gods and goddesses of India, different literatures of India. 

And Guru Maharaj sometimes employ the formula, where he said, “As connotation increases, denotation decreases.” And what he means by that, the more meaningful something is the narrower what it will be referring to. And giving an example. If we say, who accepts Bhagavad-gita, raise your hand. North, South, East and West the hands go up. It’s accepted in India by vaisnavas of all stripes (?), mayavadis, and what was the name of the president of India, Colum (?)? He is a scientist, Muslim scientist, he is reading Bhagavad-gita. In the West so many, when the devotees would make adds previously, they would mention, the American transcendentalist, the Raw Emerson (?), Schopenhauer, a big least of people who are appreciating Bhagavad-gita. North, South, East and West. 

But if we increase the connotation and say, yes, but really Bhagavad-gita should be understood in the light of Srimad Bhagavatam, the Bhagavata Purana. Then the mayavadis won’t accept that, some sankarites, some satas (?) they won’t find this acceptable, you’ll be left with vaisnavas. Sri Vaisnavas, tattva, madva school and Gaudias. Then if we increase the connotation more and say, yes, the Bhagavad-gita should be understood in the light of the Bhagavatam, but the real substance of the Bhagavatam is being extracted by Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and his followers. So, the Bhagavatam should be understood in the light of Mahaprabhu’s teaching, and there you’ll leave the madhva line and line of sri vaisnavas, and Gaudia vaisnavas. So, again demonstrating Srila Guru Maharaja’s principle, As connotation increases, what is denoted decreases. So, yes, in a general sense we can say, that everyone is the servant of Krsna, right? Jiva-svarupa hoi nityera krsna das, everyone is an eternal servant of Krsna. But when it comes to the point of worship and how they will be worshiped, we’re told to make some distinction in this line. So, while being respectful, the vaisnavas are not engaged in worship of demigods and demigoddesses. So, if go back to that original question and say, and employ that same type of answer, we’ll say, “Well, didn’t the gopis wordhip Katyayani?” Yes, the Vraja-gopis, the highest devotees of Krsna, they approach in this sense a lesser Deity, and their simple-hearted jnana-sunya bhakti like way to say, “Oh, we want that Krsna will be our husband.” So, they want devotion to Krsna, they are not approaching for something else. 

So, anyway, I don’t have anything more to say rally than what we heard from Srila Guru Maharaj and Srila Gurudev and so we’re not, we’re keeping our focus on the lotus feet of Guru, Gauranga, Radha, Govinda. Srila Saraswati Thakur who is the Guru of the Guru Maharaj and all other Gaudia Math Gurus, he introduced the worship of Mahaprabhu and Radha-Govinda. So, if we take it, that he is aware of all of these things and he has selected this, then we can be very confident in that. And Srila Guru Maharaj will mention that, well, actually, this came up once to give you an idia. Once devotee he thought, the sad-buj (?) Deity will be very nice where he was. There are so many Indians there and sat-buj (?) means the six-armed form of Krsna. Sometimes we’re told shown to Arvabhavana Bhattacharya, shown in some other context. Six arms. What are they? Two arms of Ramachandra, two arms of Krsna, two rams of Mahaprabhu. Sometimes there are four arms of Visnu, but different configurations. But we’re taking that it’s Ramachandra, Krsna, Mahaprabhu. It’s being shown to Sarvabhavana Bhattacharya. 

Now, this devotee thought, Indian people they like Ramachandra. So, “That will be good, we have a Deity, there is Ramachandra.” And so many Indian people, they like Krsna. So, we have Krsna, Ramachandra and connecting with Mahaprabhu. This will be very nice. He wanted Guru Maharaj to sanction that for his temple. And Guru Maharaj he said, “There, what Mahaprabhu is showing to Sarvabhavana Bhattacharya is that he is God, he is showing his divinity. That who was Ramachandra, who was Krsna, again he’s appeared as Mahaprabhu. But that’s not showing who he is eternally, that’s on a lower level, he’s showing divinity. 

But in the Ramananda Samvad, where Mahaprabhu reveals himself to Ramananda Ray, he’s showing his actual identity, rasa-raj maha bhav dui eka rup, that Rasaraj Krsna, it’s in the famous section, where Ramananda, when they first sit on the banks of the Godavari river, it’s described that when Ramananda encounters Mahaprabhu, looks like the sun is sitting on the bank of the river, wearing saffron garments of a sannyasi. So, it looks like the sun is there dressed as a sannyasi. Then they have their discussion where Mahaprabhu is asking the questions and Ramananda is giving the answers. And Ramananda later will say, “Really you’re playing me,” like the way musician plays an instrument, “I am making the sounds, but you’re playing me in a particular way and these sounds are coming out.”

And it was mentioned at the very beginning of the chapter, 

bhakta mekhe bhakti siddhanta chayamrta ni sancharja ramabida bhaktame,

Comparing the devotee to a cloud, saying from the ocean of bhakti-siddhanta this cloud has, what’s the word? When cloud is generated from an ocean, and then it’s raining back on the ocean. So, the cloud of Ramananda, the bhakti-meghe, megh, appeared from the bhakti-siddhanta ocean of Mahaprabhu’s Krsna Conception, and then rained again in the form of this nectarine instructions.  So, toward the end of their discussion Ramananda says, he notices that Mahaprabhu is not looking like a sannyasi any more, as he looks more carefully, he said, “I am seeing Krsna.” And Mahaprabhu answers by saying, “Oh, we’ve heard in the Bhagavatam, that Mahabhagavad devotees, great devotees they see Krsna everywhere and in everything, so when you look at me, of course you’re also seeing Krsna. That could be an explanation. And Ramananda said, “No, please, don’t tease me in this way. And not that I’m just seeing Krsna, this is very extraordinary and peculiar, I see that Syamasundar Krsna, Syamagopa rup, Krsna as a cowherd boy with the flute, Syamagopa rup Krsna, there is a golden girl, whose effulgence is covering Him. And this is bewildering to me, what is this?” And at that point Mahaprabhu said, “Yes, I cannot conceal Myself from your loving devotional eye,” like Brahma-samhita,

premanjana charita bhakti vilochanena sam tak sa deva hrdoye sivalokayanti yamsyamasundaram achintya guna svarupam,

Pramanjana charita bhakti vilochanena, when the eyes are anointed with Krsna-prem, real love and affection for Krsna, then one can actually see divine form of the Lord. So, said, “I can’t conceal myself from your loving eye, Rasaraj Krsna, who’s rasa personified, and maha-bhav, Radharani, who can extract the rasa to the unlimited degree, see they are both combined in me (?). Then Ramananda fainted and when he reawoke, he saw Mahaprabhu as a sannyasi again. So, Srila Guru Maharaj pinpoints this by saying, “Here, this concept where Mahaprabhu nowhere else does he reveal to anyone his eternal identity, what he reveal to Ramananda Ray, that is the worship, that is given by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur to his followers.”

So, where shell we take our direction? From up to down? Means from Srila Saraswati Thakur he is giving this particular conception  or someone else is giving another conception.

sadopasya srimad grta manuja kaye pranayitam bahadhvi girvane girisha paramestri pravrtti vi sabhaktye vyasuddha nija bhajanam udram upadisam sachaitanya kame punar api drsor yasyati padam 

Says sad-bhaktye, Mahaprabhu he’s showing how to be a devotee. Mahaprabhu is not worshiping demigods, that’s not what he is training his devotees. He’s personally showing how to do this with his devotees. He’s not disrespecting anyone, but that is not his focal point. And what does it say here? The gods and goddesses they are assuming human forms to have a glimpse of the beauty of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. 

One man in Dum Dum park, he had a little daughter and they live across, he was always inviting people over his house, I forget what his name was, but he’s always invite me, I’d go around he’d stop me, invite me, but I never went. But one day, he said, “I am not going to your Math any more.” “Why is that?” “I’ve heard that arati song.” The Saraswat-arati. “What?” And he said, “Sambhu-agochar, that is beyond that Siva can comprehend. I cannot accept that.” [laughs]. At least he was listening. But he can’t, that is beyond that Brahma, Siva could conceive. So, Guru Maharaj said,

svarna loti darpanabha deho vana gauravam

darva means what ten million, what is the beauty of Mahaprabhu? Ten million shining mirrors made out of gold, if you made mirrors out of gold, and sometimes it’s told, molten gold. When is gold is more shining? When it’s hot, another words liquid. Padma parijata ganda bandi tanga soravam koti kami murchi tangri rupa rasa rangaram, ten million Cupids would faint to see the beauty of Mahaprabhu Gauranga Sundar. Cupids also are devas. 

Anyway, as Gopal mentioned today is the disappearance day of Jayadev Das Babaji Maharaj. So, Bhaktivinod tahkur, when he wanted to, and this is very good example too, he has some inspiration, this is the birth place of Mahaprabhu in Navadwip. He had a vision in Svarup-ganj. But he doesn’t think, “I am Bhaktivinod Thakur.” He’s thinking, “Who is the higher vaisnava? I’ll go and get his.” So, a higher vaisnava, he invites Jagannath das Babaji Maharaj, “Maharaj, you can tell this is real or not. Maybe it’s my imagination.” That’s real devotees thinking that way. “Who am I to make these determinations? I should approach the higher devotee. I’ll bring Jagannath da Babaji Maharaj.” And we’re told, when Jagannath das Babaji Maharaj arrives there, but we’re told he is hundred and twenty five years old, has one attendant, servant, who carries him in a big basket, like, what are they call it, rattan? Basket. So, in a basket he is carrying Jagannath das Babaji, wherever he goes, because that time he seems he has hunchback like this. Always taking Krsna-nam, doing bhajan, which means direct service, not abstract meditation, direct service in the upper world.

And what happens? Jagannath Das Babaji, he’s so inspired, he jumps out of the basket, he’s jumping like, like one and a half meters off the ground, he’s leaping in ecstasy, celebrating that this is Mahaprabhu birth place. And Bhaktivinod Thakur says in kalyana kalpa taru, that on one Ekadashi, like that, Jagannath Das Babaji Maharaj is dancing and singing, that he was in the divine ecastasy, showing like all the symptoms, like asta-sattvika-vikara, hair’s standing on end, trembling, all these different ecstatic symptom. And Bhaktivinod Thakur and all the others, they’re doing a kirttan, and Jagannath Das Babaji Maharaj is in ecstasy, and Bhaktivinod Thakur says, when he extended that to all of them, so what he was experiencing, they were all experiencing, and then they couldn’t play the karatals, the drum or sing or anything, they just all went to a state of divine madness, that’s Jagannath Das Babaji, vaisnava sarvabhauma sri.

What does Babaji Maharaj say, gaura braja srityu sesaya vaisnavera vigraham, premadhi vidha vaisnavam, the oldest, but old in the sense most senior. 

And Gurudev said, in a similar way, when Saraswati Thakur was born in Jagannath Puri, Bhaktivinod Thakur invited him to see the birth of this divine child. Hare Krsna. 

Anything else?

Devotee: Where we can get more information about Jagannath Das Babaji Maharaj?

Goswami Maharaj: We’re not interested in information. That’s the point I’m going to make. We want the mercy of these vaisnavas. Information will not help us.  So, to inquire in different ways, tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya, we can be curious, our curiousity can be aroused. But that will not be helpful in understanding them. Just for example, Saraswati Thakur mentioned when Vrndavan das Thakur appears, Narayani is his mother. And she wants take the remnants of Mahaprabhu, we’re told, when she was a girl later on she gives birth to Vrndavan das Thakur. It’s mentioned in the commentaries there, nothing is told about his paternal line, Saraswati Thakur says, “Because it’s not significant.” So, when it comes to these things, what little we hear, that’s suffies (?). is we try to satisfy our curioussity we may hear many more things, but whether o not hey are authentic, substantial to be emphasized is another thing. So, some, there is a book Vaisnava-abhidan, stories of great vaisnavas, I mentioned there.

But this one I told Gurudev once reminded him, Madhavendra Puri’s appearance day, that, “Some say this sanyyasi who came to Nityananda Prabhu’s house was Madhavendra Puri.” And Gurudev responded by saying, “Some say!” And we say, “but we want to know is it or isn’t it?” And what the answer to this is, “Some say.” So, somethings are like that. When Guru Maharaj asked Saraswati Thakur, “Rupa Goswami concludes Krsna-lila in one way, Sanatan in another way. How do we understand that?” Saraswati Thakur said, “Adhoksaja. It’s beyond what we can understand.” Otherwise if everything is something we can understand fully, then we have to retire thee name adhosakja. But Adhoksaja is one of the favorite names of Krsna, throughout the Bhagavatam, beginning, middle and end is Adhoksaja, to remind us as much as He wants us to know, that much we’ll know. 

Question: Maharaj, but so what do call by mercy [unclear], you’ve said that we don’t need…

Goswami Maharaj: Yeah, what I mean to say, when I was asking Guru Maharaj once questions based upon logic and what would be having heard one thing, what would be the next rational thing to say. He answered my question up to the point and then he said, “But if you pursue this further you gonna break your head.” That was his, “You gonna break your head.” And about inquiring about vaisnavas and their background and their histories, and he said in a very humble way, “We want the grace of these souls, if we become too inquisitive, too curious,” like there is a saying, a maxim in English, “Curiosity killed the cat.” Is our cat still alive? Okay, good. Our devotee cat, jnana-sunya bhakta cat, “I don’t need to know.” Like Gurudev said, “If you need to know, that’s not devotion.” 

But anyway, so, what I mean to say, it’s like Brahma, jnana-prayasam udapasya namanta eva, he’s saying, by his own experience, “I got too curious about this cowherd boy Krsna, I couldn’t figure it out in my four brains. Why this little boy, grown Gods and Goddesses should be worshiping this boy, it’s just doesn’t make any sense. Now I’ve learnt something.” So, I can understand, jnana-prayasam udapasya namanta eva, stop trying to understand Him through that approach. Stanesthita sruti katham tanu vam manobhir, if you hear from the devotees, that will be a substantial connection with reality and their way, their method and to what degree they express things. And not to press for more. I am just, I’m answering you, I’m using you as an example, you know, because…just because. [laughs]. Whatever I tell you, I’m the violator of all of these things. That’s why I tell you, whatever it is, I’ve already violated it, again and again, a thousand times over. So, what I’ve heard from the higher, I’m trying to share with you. Like when I heard that someone a daughter of Bhaktivinod Thakur might be, this is a long time ago, a live in London, and just my curiosity, I said in front of Gurudev, I said, “Oh, maybe on the way through someone could interview her.” And Gurudev said, “We’re not interested in any flesh connection.” And I went like, [chokes over]. “Blood.” “I am sorry, I didn’t, I wasn’t thinking.” And that afternoon I remember going to see Srila Guru Maharaj and in the late afternoon the shadows come and maybe it was playing tricks on my eyes and vision, but as I sat with him, I saw, “Here is Bhaktivinod Thakur, why am I thinking to go somewhere else if anyone can tell me about Bhaktivinod Thakur is Guru Maharaj.” And for a moment I’m seeing afternoon shadows, whatever I saw like that way, “Here,” like Saraswati Thakur said, “You’ve not written as Bhaktivinod Thakur has written this through you,” I’m seeing, “That person is before me, the Rupanuga dhara, the one, who Saraswati Thakur says represented him, Bhaktivinod’s writing things through him, he’s in front of me.” What was that saying? Gaura denge dash kayoa, the troth where hourse eats, they jump over that to go search for food. It’s a Bengali saying. So, I am saying, “I am the guilty one of all of these things, the violator.” So, perhaps when I recognize my tendencies in others, I’m just cautioning them. 

Devotee: Maharaj, we just had a conversation today with Haridas and cause he’s reading about Srila Saraswati Thakur and he is, you can call this curiosity, but you know, when you’re just like trying to know something about lines of teacher. And he said, “There are not so many things to know about Jagannath Das Babaji Maharaj,” and today is his disappearance day. So, my fault, I pronounced question not right, like not where we can get the information, but do you know something and can you…?

Goswami Maharaj: Right, I took advantage of what you said to say some other things. Then you can understand by implication it’s not forbidden, but there is just pariprasna, pariprasna means out of the service necessity. And we’re back to the original question, when it’s seva, when the current is seva, it’s alright. But when it’s not, a vaisnava muko jnana jutam hari kathamrtam sravanam naiva karta vyam sarposchitam vrta payo, this famous sloka of Sanatan Goswami, and we think of the Babaji Maharaj srory, so, we could say, “Wait. Krsna-katha,” says in the Gopi-gita it will save the world. Saraswati Thakur says, “The only shortage is Krsna-katha.” The gopi say, “This is what gives you life.” This is it, Krsna-katha. And now Sanatan Goswami say, “If not heard from the vaisnava,” and by implication the vaisnava way, sraddhanvato anusranaya tata vana edya, “Don’t hear it.” ThatKrsna-katha, that will save our lives, save our souls, it’ll save the world, not to hear. Because then, sarpochista vyata payo, it’s like milk touched by the lips of the serpent, it can become something else, by the ulterior motive of the speaker. So, instead of the streams of nectar like from Haridas Pandit, his moonlike face, and (?) Chaitanya-lila is streaming like nectar from, it’s suddenly the moonlike nectarine face from another angle of vision turn into a cobra with teeth and it’s venomous. So, that means, what is the current? Sevan-mukhata, sevan mukhe, when the tongue is influenced by serving current, then it’s making the right vibration, then we’ll all be illuminated by that thing. And that’s why I said, it’s not the information, but the spirit with which it is imparted, that’s what we’re most concerned about. Hare Krsna.