Dive Deep Into Reality

Goswāmī Mahārāj: Any questions from any one?

Audience: Bhakti Sudhir Goswāmī Mahārāj kī jay!

Goswāmī Mahārāj: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
[Question in Russian]

Question: The question relates to the realization, when you realise yourself as a soul, [it is said] in many scriptures and also Bhakti Vinod Ṭhākur tells us that when you realise yourself as a soul, it is so beautiful, all the time after that moment, when you recall that moment of realisation once more or again and again. Bhuvana is interested [to know], doesn’t that mean once you touch this realisation, you are just in and going forward and forward and not come back in order to realise again and again.

Goswāmī Mahārāj: Yes, the question is related to the Bhagavad-gītā (2.29) śloka, āścharyavat paśyati kaśchid enam. In the second chapter of Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa is telling Arjuna, that when you have a glimpse of yourself (we are saying ‘soul-self’ here in a synonymous way), [it is] āścharya (astonishing). So, what we have to factor in is at present our bodily conception of the self. We have mentioned before the word ātmā. And in Sanskrit definition which ātmā, we say means soul or self. Sometimes ātmā is described as body, it can be ātmā because there can be many different conceptions of the self. Body, mind, intellect, ego, soul. So, as Śrīla Guru Mahārāj mentions many times, our self, our soul, is covered by layers and layers of acquired prejudice, acquired tendencies. Sanskrit word [is] saṁskār. One of its meanings is mental impressions. So, if you factor in: jala-jā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati (Viṣṇu Purāṇā), the soul’s evolving from, the subjective evolution of the soul parallels the objective evolution. The soul’s transmigrating from one body to another to another to another in an evolving, upgrading way.

It is a gradual development of consciousness and unfolding and full expression of free will. But in this process as if, being in the world of exploitation, of action and reaction, we have accumulated layers of impressions (saṁskār) of existence. After so many life times, so many impressions have been made upon the consciousness. In art, they have an expression ‘palimpsest.” It means they had paintings, then sometimes someone made a painting over that painting, someone made a painting over that painting and another one, another one and another one. And they can discover, take one painting away [and] find, “Ah, we find another painting.” Take that one away—there is another one beneath that, another one beneath that. The same sort of principle, that all of these mental impressions are coming and accumulated from life after life after life. Śrīla Guru Mahārāj calls them ‘acquired tendencies’. Why we are automatically compelled to do certain things? Acquired prejudice. Why are we automatically tend to think in certain ways? And with those acquired tendencies and acquired prejudices we are born in the human life—this life, into a particular country, gender, national identity, social identity, historical identity and all of that is influencing our conception of the self, of who we are.

It is a right of passage with the onset of puberty generally that boys and girls start thinking about, “Who am I?” I remember being thirteen, going into the bathroom, looking in the mirror, starting to look very carefully at my face and wondering, “Who am I? Who are you? What are you?” Maybe I was a little extreme. But [for] everyone, it is so-called right of passage. I remember my brother, when he was in medical school, he had this one girl friend and I had some philosophical conversations with her. And she seemed to be interested in those kind of things. Later my brother told me that, “She is having an identity crisis.” And I thought, “Oh, that is very good.” That was considered like as, “She would grow out of it, but right now she is questioning, who am I? What is purpose? She would get over it.” I thought, “That’s what makes her interesting. If she stops asking those questions, then she is just like so many other fools.”

As in the Great Gatsby by Fitzgerald, when Daisy Buchanan has a daughter, she blesses the girl, “I hope you grow up to be a beautiful fool.” [laughs] So, [when they are] enquiring, at that point, we will say, “Oh, that is a very good thing.” Teenagers, they start to wanting to discover themselves, who they are. Now in the modern world, they have so many avenues of expression through digital technology, social media to express themselves. But is it a true expression of self?

Is it true self expression? Or is it a mere expressing acquired tendencies, acquired prejudices, that are accumulated life time after life time and most recently in this life by being born in a particular gender, in a particular country and in a particular social, economic status, educated in a particular way, born in a particular part of the country, all the things that you can—modifiers that you could add to this, is it merely an expression of that misconceived notion of self, misconceived notion of identity? So, when Sanātan Goswāmī says to Mahāprabhu, “‘Ke ami’, ‘kene amāya jāre tāpa-traya’: who am I and why am I suffering from the three fold miseries?” (Cc: Madhya 20.102) Adhyātmik, adhibhautik, adhidaivik. Adhyātmik: self imposed miseries, adhibhautik: miseries from others (other people, other living beings), adhidaivik: from the environment.

He said, “If I do not know who am I and why I am suffering this way: kemane hita haya, can I really enquire about what is ultimately beneficial for me?” And we can use Bhagavad-gītā as an example, part of Arjuna’s dilemma is identifying with externals. So Kṛṣṇa is telling him, “Āścharyavat paśyati kaśchid enam: if you have glimpse of your actual self, transcending karmic circumstance, transcending relative circumstance, the time, place, circumstances of which you are born, if you have a glimpse of your actual self in its reality potential, it is potential for self expression in the permanent world, beyond transient existence and existence, beyond karmic circumstance, you will be astonished. (Bg: 2.29) There is a general level of understanding that you allude to in the beginning when you realise your spiritual identity, that is a general statement.

Like the famous aphorism: athāto brahma jijñāsā. It says, athāto: now is the time for spiritual enquiry. [It is] beginning or one of the early ones aphorism [of] Vedānta-sūtra. It is interesting, sūtra means condensed expression, but begins with the statement, athāto: now enquire, now engage in spiritual enquiry. So, the question arises, “What do you mean now?” Just the word ‘now’ is implying something before that, so—now you should do this. What is it? Being a sūtra, many meanings can be extracted from there. One meaning [is] saying, now that you have achieved human life, in the evolution of the soul from lower species to higher species, now that you have achieved human life, you can engage in this enquiry, in this spiritual enquiry and try to understand your actual identity transcending relative circumstance. So, the most general sense of the spiritual discovery, notion of the self as soul, soul as self is the aścharya: wonderment, astonishment, to realise that actually my existence is beyond all of this.

That’s astonishing. The first glimpse, that actually all of this acquired prejudice, acquired tendency, and karmic circumstance that I am entrenched and surrounded by, my real identity is located beyond all of this. As Kṛṣṇa tells Arjuna in the Gītā,

indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur
indriyebhyaḥ param manaḥ
manasas tu parā buddhir
buddher yaḥ paratas tu saḥ
(Bhagavad-gītā: 3.42)

Superior to the objective world, the object of the senses, are the senses themselves. Superior to what is seen or observed or felt or tasted or heard, superior to that are instruments that enable seeing, hearing, tasting, touching smelling, feeling, etc. That means the senses. But superior to the senses is the mind, which really is hearing, seeing, tasting, smelling, touching, feeling etc, through the senses. Just like they are looking through the lens in the camera. There is a camera, the lens, etc., but more important or most, is the seer, the cameraman, the one who is seeing through the lens. So He is saying [that] here is seeing, the instruments of seeing, then the mind is the seat of sense experience. So, in English, we have an expression, if someone lost their mind, one expression is: ‘they have lost their senses’, the implication being if you lost your mind, then there is nothing to register the experience.

Or even without using the example about insanity, if someone is so-called absent minded [and] someone is calling their name or something, and they are absent minded, they will say, “I didn’t hear you, I didn’t hear what you’ve said.” Because if the mind is not using the senses, there is nothing there to receive what is coming through them. So, He is taking us from the objective world, now we are going subtler, more refined towards subjective world. Then He says, manasas tu parā buddhir: superior to the mind is the intelligence, which is the discriminating factor, which is making a judgment on all that is perceived, all the sense experience of the mind. Then finer—ahaṅkār (ego), still [it] is [on] the soul’s plane. So, in the most general sense, whether it is Kṛṣṇa saying in Gītā or as you allude to Guru Mahārāj and Bhakti Vinod Thākur, if you can follow this type of thinking it will take you gradually deeper into the subtle plane of existence and [when] you realise: ‘my soul is there’, you will be astonished. That’s the beginning. It is still general spiritual enquiry: athāto brahma jijñāsā.

Once Śrīla Prabhupād was saying [about] another aphorism, ahaṁ brahmāsmi: I am spirit. If you say, “Ahaṁ brahmāsmi, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, ahaṁ brahmāsmi,” it will become boring. It is a very general thing. Then we want to know what is the specifics of spirit. Then if we follow carefully what we are hearing, then it is not that now you have reached the spiritual plane, so no more hearing, no more seeing, no more tasting, smelling, feeling! Now I am in the spiritual zone... No! That’s the beginning of actual hearing, seeing, smelling, tasting, touching, feeling.” So, this whole world begins to open up which is what Devarṣi Nārad telling Vedavyās in Śrīmad Bhāgavatam,

nirodho ’syānuśayanam
ātmanaḥ saha śaktibhiḥ
muktir hitvānyathā-rūpaṁ
svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ
(Śrīmad Bhāgavatam: 2.10.6)

When you become liberated from bodily identity, mental intellectual identity, when you enter the soul plane, you have a svarūp that is the location of your actual self. And there you have a form that can see, hear, touch, and feel, but transcends temporary existence that has a life to live in the spiritual domain. A life of love with Kṛṣṇa—that is your possibility, your prospect. So, they are not talking about repeatedly recalling in some general sense that you are spiritual by nature. That is not what they are talking about. They are talking about? In Guru Mahārāj’s aphorism, ‘dive deep into reality’, beginning with the general spiritual conception of the self and then going into a deeper and more refined conception of self and self expression through dedication in the land of dedication. So, three planes of existence, we conceive: the land of exploitation, renunciation and dedication.

So, it is a relief to realise, that I am not a member nor do I have a permanent place as an exploiting unit in the world of exploitation. But that is more or less a neutral position. So, to rise above that [means], it is to rise above negativity, but you are only in a neutral position. Then what is my potential of activity in the positive plane which means the land of dedication? We hear, there is the Vaikuṇṭha world. Two and a half rasas of Vaikuṇṭha. If you read Bṛhad-Bhāgavatāmṛtam, we’re going from karma-miśra bhakti, jñāna-miśra bhakti and to suddha-bhakti and finally to jñāna-sunya bhakti. Devotion mixed with some karmic tendencies, devotion mixed with jñānic tendencies, and pure devotion, pure devotional expression. So, from the fourteen levels of planetary systems in material world to Virajā-river, the neutral plane to Śivaloka and the beginning of Vaikuṇṭha—śānta-rasā and dāsya-rasa and beginning stages of sakhya-rasa or friendship, sometimes [for] old servitors. Going deeper—Ayodhya.

Sītā, Rām. “Vaikuṇṭhāj janito varā madhu-purī tatrāpi rāsotsavād,” (Up: 9) Dvārakā, Mathurā. So, that is what they are talking about, realising the deeper more refined conception of the self. They are not talking about revisiting some general spiritual notion of self as a impetus for, not nostalgic, they keep thinking back to that time when they realised that they were spiritual. As I’ve told the other day, Bhakti Vinod Ṭhākur in the end of Śaraṇāgati says, “I am taking Kṛṣṇa-nāma, Nām-Rūpa-Guṇa-Līlā: out of the Holy Name of Kṛṣṇa some divine colour appears, that takes form, there is Kṛṣṇa with specific qualities: achintya guṇa svarūpam (Bs: 5.38), His inconceivable form of beauty, charm and sweetness and He takes me into His Pastimes in the spiritual world.” They are giving a hint or even more than a hint of a soul’s potential. And they are saying [that] the remembrance and exploration of that self, and that self’s potential in reality, that self’s reality potential in the spiritual world is astonishing. It is not something that is static. That is something dynamic and growing.

Sometimes Guru Mahārāj would say, “The ocean of joy is not a static ocean of joy.” Ocean of joy might be enough for most people, but not for Guru Mahārāj. He said, “No, It is not a static ocean of joy, but an ecstatic ocean of joy, ecstasy, where in it there is dynamic movement.” When he says [about] Kṛṣṇa’s beauty, “Kandarpa-koṭi kamanīya viśeṣa śobham: ten million cupids personified as one,” he is trying to tell us something. And ten million is an arbitrary number, in a sense just to tell us how extreme it is. We know the seductive charm of one cupid, how intense that can be in this world. When somebody is fully, let us say, [experience] the extremes of lust—[it is just] one cupid. Multiply that by ten million times! So, he is giving us a hint of achintya guṇa svarūpam: of the inconceivable beauty of the Divine form of Kṛṣṇa. And it is something nityaṁ nava-navāya-mānam, nava-yauvana.

Ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ cha (Bs: 5.33): He is eternally fresh, ever new. Eternally fresh and beautiful. Although we hear [that] Kṛṣṇa is inconceivably beautiful, the Vraja-gopīs see Him, and they are inconceivable beautiful. Seeing the beauty of Kṛṣṇa, drinking the beauty of Kṛṣṇa through eyes, ears, etc., they become more beautiful. Kṛṣṇa seeing their increased beauty, He becomes more beautiful . And then they become more beautiful. And there is a dynamic, eternal competition of beauty in that way. So, this is what they are talking about. Not nostalgia, revisiting something from the past, but diving deep into reality, going deeper and deeper. How beautiful is Kṛṣṇa? Dvārakā Kṛṣṇa seeing a picture of Vṛndāvan Kṛṣṇa in His younger days is thinking, “How beautiful I was!” Or sometimes Kṛṣṇa, seeing His own reflection in a jewelled column, becomes astonished to see the beauty of this person. He can’t conceive of someone so beautiful. He is thinking, “Who is this person who is so beautiful, I find the sentiments of Rādhārāṇi awakening within Me.

mach-chittā mad-gata-prāṇā
bodhayantaḥ parasparam
kathayantaś cha māṁ nityaṁ
tuṣyanti cha ramanti cha
(Bhagavad-gītā: 10.9)

In this śloka of Bhagavad-gītā it is said, “When the devotees are discussing the Pastimes of Kṛṣṇa, the Qualities of Kṛṣṇa, the Divine Form of Kṛṣṇa, tuṣyanti: it is like they are eating a feast. Like the beginning śloka of Gīta-Govinda,

viśveṣām anurañjanena janayann ānandam indīvara-
śreṇī-śyāmala-komalair upanayann aṅgair anaṅgotsavam
(Gīta-govinda: 1.11)

Anaṅga-utsavam: Kṛṣṇa’s divine form, each part of His body looks like a festival of beauty. So, the devotees are drinking the beauty of Kṛṣṇa with their eyes, drinking the beauty of the sound of Kṛṣṇa’s name and flute with their ears, inhaling the fragrance of Kṛṣṇa with their noses, touching the Divine form of Kṛṣṇa. There is a whole chapter in Chaitanya-charitāmṛtam about why the divine prasādam has extraordinary taste coming in connection with Kṛṣṇa. They are feasting, it is nectar feast for the eyes, nose, ears, tongue, everything as if they are eating nectarine substances, but all through different senses.

That is tuṣyanti cha. It says, tuṣyanti cha ramanti cha, there we are having that type of joy and then ramanti means just like erotic pleasure. The extremes of erotic pleasure are also getting spiritual parallel of that type of joy from hearing about Kṛṣṇa, talking about Kṛṣṇa, tasting the prasādam of Kṛṣṇa. This is what it says. We think we know what Kṛṣṇa consciousness is. We think, “One day I had some appreciation,...” not to say we didn’t. But Guru Mahārāj is saying, “This is what it is saying there: do not impose our own idea about what they are revisiting in this.” There is something dynamic, deep, growing, it is deep internal relish.

ramante yogino ’nante
satyānande chid-ātmani
(Śrī Chaitanya-charitāmṛta: Madhya 9.29)

What do they explain? Rama means pleasure. Ramante, rama-ante: the ultimate pleasure. Even the yogīs of this world,

brahmānando bhaved eṣa chetparārdha-guni- kṛtaḥ
naiti bhakti-sukhambhodheḥ paramāṇu-tulām api
(Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu: 1.1.38)

It says, ‘brahmānanda’. This generic sādhus and yogīs experience brahma-ānanda: the ecstasy of spirit of realising the spiritual nature of themselves in everything in a generic sense. How great it is? The highest pleasure in this world is erotic pleasure, sexual pleasure; once they experience brahmānanda, they have no interest in that. But Śrī Yāmunā Āchārya says,

Yāmunā Āchārya says in this one śloka, “Now that I am nava-nava-rasa, this newer and newer taste of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, tasting the beauty, form, name etc. of Kṛṣṇa, nava-nava-rasa, it is newer and newer, and fresher, and sweeter, and more heart devouring.” He said, “If I remember somehow, if past erotic pleasure comes to my mind from my past side, [I] spit on the thought.”

That is what he is saying. But I remember one of my godbrothers many many years ago said, “Unfortunately, every time we spit, we are thinking of sex life.” The opposite of that. They have test how often people think. But here Yāmunā Āchārya is saying, “I am relishing this newer and newer taste, if that old taste, rasa-varjaṁ raso ’py asya paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (Bg: 2.59), if I recall the past joys of material life, it is disgusting.”

But he is not saying that the way a fanatical new comer would. Once a Christian preacher, later became a famous broadcaster, in his earlier days when he was a preacher, gave a heavy talk on sense gratification. This and that and sin and all the parishioners were there. He was like in his twenties and at the end of his sermon some old man came up and said, “Son, I don’t think you are really old enough to know a lot about sin.” [laughs]. Baudelaire, the French poet in Fleurs du mal (Flowers of Evil) one of his famous work, has a section where he talks about kanak, kāminī and prathiṣta, where he is saying [about] money, wealth, name and fame and women and then the summary of this is in the end. He said, “When I was young, I rejected all of these things so intensely and so vehemently, I must have really insulted them. But now I am old, I am begging them to return to me. They don’t want to have anything to do with me. Because I have insulted them all when I was young.” It shows [that] he knows something. He has got a certain Je ne sais quoi.

But that idea when Yāmunā Āchārya says this we shouldn’t take it to be the fanatical expression of a neophyte. He is saying, nava-nava-rasa: I am experiencing this deeper and deeper pleasure, relish from hearing about Kṛṣṇa, meditating on His Divine form, tasting the prasādam from Kṛṣṇa, hearing the Divine sound of His name and the pleasure is so intense that any remembrance of past mundane pleasures is disgusting. It is statement of fact, not wishful thinking or aversion being the opposite side of attraction. Not like that. We also saw Śrīla Guru Mahārāj’s constantly, daily diving deep into Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This isn’t something you did before. When we say, dīkṣā-kāle bhakta kare ātma-samarpaṇa (Cc: Antya, 4.192)dīkṣā-kāle means at the time of initiation. So, sometimes devotees would say, “Oh I was initiated on this day at this time,” and it was a year ago or 10 years ago, or 30 years ago, or 300 years ago. It says, “Dīkṣā-kāle bhakta kare ātma-samarpaṇa,” (Cc: Antya 4.192) really it is when you offer yourself to Kṛṣṇa fully. So there are different ways of interpreting everything. We could say from another point of view: have I really offered myself to Kṛṣṇa? Real devotees they don’t think that they are devotees. They think, “I have not really given myself.”

Śrīla Guru Mahārāj likes to tell that Rūpa Goswāmī has Padyāvalī collection of prayers, Raghunath Goswāmī has Stavamālī, a collection of prayers. In the Rūpa Goswāmī’s ‘kiṁ pādānte’ śloka (Pv: 385), Kṛṣṇa is coming to apologise to Rādhārāṇī to touch Her feet and Rādhārāṇī shrinks away saying, “What are You doing? There is no fault in your part. If there is any fault in this relationship it is on my part. And what is the real shame? Although I am famous in the world for having devotion to Kṛṣṇa and not only that as the Supreme devotee of Kṛṣṇa, the real tragedy is that I couldn’t give myself to You.” That is how She is thinking.

Śrīmati Rādhārāṇī, the highest devotee of whom there is no one higher, no one has more love for Kṛṣṇa, She is saying [about] the tragedy, it is pathetic. “I couldn’t give myself to You,” that is how She feels about that. And we will say, “Well, that is not true. Why is She expressing something like this?” [This is] showing how deep is Her conception of Kṛṣṇa, how deep is Her love for Kṛṣṇa. And it is the same sort of things [which] are expressed by Mahāprabhu, “Na prema-gandho ’sti darāpi me harau: I do not have a scent of the fragrance of Kṛṣṇa-prema. What to speak of a drop?” (Cc: Madhya, 2.45) It also says, Kṛṣṇa-prema is like the gold in the rivers of heaven, it is not a thing of this world: vrajera viśuddha-prema jāmbū-nada hema (Cc: Antya, 20.62) And the point Guru Mahārāj makes by invoking these ślokas, is really if you come in deep connection with Kṛṣṇa, you can’t live in separation. You won’t be able to tolerate being separated from Kṛṣṇa. We are speaking from different levels of perspectives of analysis. [But] we need to know what the ultimate standard is. What we are being told is if you really come in connection with Kṛṣṇa consciousness and by extension, Kṛṣṇa, you will not be able to live separated from it for a moment. You will die in separation. It is so charming, sweet, heart devouring. I know now I am scaring everyone.

But in this world we have the parallel—the lovers. And the love song, love stories are saying, “I will die, I can’t live without you.” Not to mock them, but it is a genuine sentiment where people say they will die if they are separated from one another. We see examples even in this world, particularly of what is like Romeo and Juliet on the fourteen year old level. And then we read at least once a year on the internet some story of some old couple, they were married for so many years, very compatible and loved each other so much. One of them dies, the other one dies. They die on the same day. As soon as one of them dies, the other one dies. We have the experience here. That is what they are telling you. That Kṛṣṇa is [such that] those who really have love Kṛṣṇa, they can’t be separated for a moment. They have to die. So, in this verse, very beautifully and mysteriously, Rādhārāṇī says, “The proof that I do not have love for Kṛṣṇa is that I am living. I didn’t die in separation. Now you are coming to touch my feet and beg forgiveness for some quarrel, lover’s quarrel. If I have any real love for you, in separation from you I would have died long time ago. The positive proof that I do not have love for you is, I go on everyday, day after day, showing my face to the world.” That is Her expression. Encouched within that is the mysterious truth about Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

It can be mind. So, a real devotee will think, “I have no real appreciation for Kṛṣṇa consciousness.” They won’t be boasting about how much they are relishing, how much appreciation they have, for how many years they have been involved, that kind of thing. Yad-vāñchhayā śrīr lalanācharat tapo (Sb: 10.16.36), Lakṣmī Devī performed austerities for life times to get entrance into that plane. The Vraja-gopīs heart are breaking at the thought of the inconceivably soft lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa touching pebbles in the soil of Vṛndāvan that Kṛṣṇa might experience some discomfort. That is intolerable to them. And the leader of that group thinks that She couldn’t give Herself to Kṛṣṇa. Ārādhana: method of worship is offering Herself wholesale. [She] said, “Considering who you are and what You are, and how wonderful You are, I couldn’t reciprocate properly.”

But when Rādhārāṇī led the Vraja-gopīs, after 100 years of separation to Kurukṣetra to see Kṛṣṇa, there is a superficial level of exchange and deep level of exchange between them. And they are recalling how Kṛṣṇa sent Uddhava previously to try and give them some instructions to relieve the anguish of separation they were feeling. But they were a little angry about these instructions, [which were], “This world is nothing. It is temporary. Having affection for the persons, places and things of this world is not good. It is not good to have attachment like this.” It is like teasing and telling them, they should take up yoga and learn to meditate. And they express their ire for being told these things.
And Guru Mahārāj [expressed it] very sweetly, they are saying, “You know, really, we want a family life with you. We are not yogīs, we are not jñānīs, we are cow-girls from Vraja. And You are mercilessly teasing us in this way. We do not appreciate it.” But Guru Mahārāj said, when Kṛṣṇa tells them,

mayi bhaktir hi bhūtānām
amṛtatvāya kalpate
diṣṭyā yad āsīn mat-sneho
bhavatīnāṁ mad-āpanaḥ
(Śrīmad Bhāgavatam: 10.82.44)

“Everyone wants Me, directly or indirectly.” Everybody wants Kṛṣṇa. Even the hedonist wants Kṛṣṇa, because Kṛṣṇa is the greatest pleasure. So, directly or indirectly actually everyone wants Kṛṣṇa whether they know it or not. Kṛṣṇa knows it because He is in everyone’s heart. He says, “Everyone wants Me, and if they get Me on any level, they consider themselves very fortunate.” They hit the lottery. But then Kṛṣṇa says, “But I consider Myself fortunate that I am the object of the pure the love and devotion that is in your hearts. So, everyone else want a connection with me and consider that their good fortune. But I consider My good fortune [that] I am the object of love in your hearts.”

And Guru Mahārāj said, when Rādhārāṇī heard this, then She realised “Whether we are near or separated it doesn’t matter. He is always ours. We own Kṛṣṇa. Now we can go back to Vṛndāvan, even to be separated.” And again the mystery of Kṛṣṇa consciousness [is that] they are now voluntarily imposing separation, but knowing in the separation, “He is always with us. Everything else is a show. He is making a show of being a King in Dvārakā, a show of Mathurā. But actually by the mercy of Viṣṇu, every day we go to see You.” And you can think, “Oh, He sends His Viṣṇu expansion.” No, Kṛṣṇa is with Them. The expansion is in Dvārakā. It is not He sends an expansion to be with them. He is always with them. The expansion is in Dvārakā. The expansion is in Mathurā. He can never leave Vṛndāvan.

And Rādhārāṇī and Vraja-gopīs even said, “[We are] seeing You in the dress of a King, surrounded by so many people. Where is your flute? We don’t like to see You like this. That is not our Kṛṣṇa. Our Kṛṣṇa has the flute [and] He is dressed like a cowherd boy. He is on the banks of Yāmunā. The sweet breeze is there, the flowers [are there and] the moon light is shining. That is our Kṛṣṇa. This is not our Kṛṣṇa. And our Kṛṣṇa never left us.” So, Guru Mahārāj said: ‘union in separation’.

Āścharyavat paśyati kaśchid enam, if we will have a glimpse of all these things we are hearing, what is mentioned here, what you mention [about] Bhakti Vinod Ṭhākur, Śrīla Guru Mahārāj and all the things, everything we have heard, if we would sometimes realise that this plane we are talking about as inconceivable as it may sound, that we have a part to play there, our real identity is located there as an eternal loving servitor and all this reality potential awaits us for a life of love and devotion with Kṛṣṇa, to the degree that we realise this prospect and possibility, we will be astonished, full of wonder and charm. That will give us some impetus to dedicate ourselves and go deeper, because all of this would vanish.

That is not just the theistic point of view. This is a scientific view. Everything here will disintegrate. It will all be gone. But [there is another world],

paras tasmāt tu bhāvo ’nyo
’vyakto ’vyaktāt sanātanaḥ
yaḥ sa sarveṣu bhūteṣu
naśyatsu na vinaśyati
(Bhagavad-gītā: 8.20)

Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo ’nyo ’vyakto ’vyaktāt: this world is manifesting for some time and then withdrawing, manifesting again and then withdrawing and then manifesting again and withdrawing, millions of times that we have lived, millions of times through millions of creation. There is another world that doesn’t dissolve or disintegrate when this one is coming and going, manifesting and unmanifesting. That is permanent. That is where your soul is located, yourself—eternal servitor identity. Having a glimpse of that prospect is enough to excite one, to enlighten one to dedicate here to move in the direction of that identity. But the higher devotees are participating in Pastimes in real time. If you look carefully what is expressed in the songs of Bhakti Vinod Ṭhākur and his writings you can understand, he is also actually participating in the Pastimes there.

Guru Mahārāj would sometimes say in summary and conclusion that, “This should be enough, this is enough to bring us this side and keep us this side. Knowing this reality potential, this future prospect [is enough] to bring us this side and keep us this side.” But we find the cumulative effect of participating in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, as that these things become more real, tangible, palpable and accessible.

A man once asked Saraswatī Ṭhākur a question privately. Guru Mahārāj said, “Two chairs were drawn in seclusion. Saraswatī Ṭhākur in one chair, the man in the other chair, looking face to face.” And Guru Mahārāj is like in the bushes. And the man said, “Have you seen Kṛṣṇa?” And Saraswatī Ṭhākur told him, “First learn how to see Kṛṣṇa. Develop the eyes to see Kṛṣṇa.”

premāñjana-chchhurita-bhakti-vilocanena
santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti
yaṁ śyāmasundaram achintya-guṇa-svarūpaṁ
[govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi]
(Brahma-saṁhitā: 5.38)

It is all there. It is spelled out clearly, premāñjana-chchhurita: when your eyes [are tinted with unguent of love]; oṁ ajñāna-timirāndhasya: when the cataracts eyes of the ignorance is removed—good; premāñjana: and then the ointment of prema, when the eyes seeing is saturated with love and affection for Kṛṣṇa, then the achintya-guṇa svarūpam: what was the inconceivable form of Kṛṣṇa, will still be inconceivable, but you will be seeing it. So he said, “First you learn how to see.”

But anyway, a devotee once said to Guru Mahārāj, “I know we say, [to] anyone who says that they have seen Kṛṣṇa, we say that they are bogus. I understand that. It is not so cheap that anyone can say, ‘I have seen, I have love for God, I love everyone. I love Kṛṣṇa’. But you are not one of those bogus people. If you would just tell me, whatever you say, I will believe it. That will give me so much encouragement.” And Guru Mahārāj said, “I do not have the audacity to say that I have seen Kṛṣṇa. But I will say this: we hear from sādhu, śastra, guru and vaiṣṇava and the writings of the great āchāryas and the goswāmīs, that in the search for Śrī Kṛṣṇa, on the way to Kṛṣṇa, there are certain signs and symptoms on that way that indicate [that] you are going in the right direction.” And Guru Mahārāj said, “I am seeing those signs and symptoms.”

Hare Kṛṣṇa