Does true love exist?

Does true love exist?

Glorification of the teachers.

So we welcome our dear Raseswari from Mother Russia, which reminds me of a joke they tell, that I wish I could tell. But it’s a Russian joke, so you can imagine what it is, but it is pretty funny. Hare Krishna.

Anyway, any question from anyone? Yes.

Q: I wonder if you can explain what is subjective thinking in our Krishna Conscious conception and also compared to what material world estimates subjective thinking. It seems to be two different things, and if you can clarify that.

Srila B.S. Goswami Maharaj: I don’t know if I can. But I can try, just I mean, that’s not like in quotes “subjective thinking”, cause if that’s within somebodies system, or something, or it’s a phrase that people use…

Q: Just the word “subjective” and what that means, [in the outside world?] and what that means to us…

Form vs. substance

Goswami Maharaj: Yes, okay, well then that I can say. Because it’s one of Srila Guru Maharaja’s themes. We say subjective, objective or form vs. substance, is what it’s really about. Form vs. Substance. Form in contrast to substance.

So interestingly just as some back story, when we were publishing books for Guardian of Devotion Press, I thought at the time with folded palms and a bowed head, that we should think of a way that would make the contents most accessible to the audience, for those who might read the books, beyond our devotees. For devotees also, but thinking beyond then, so we’ll give some attention to the form, cause Srila Guru Maharaj is known for this form vs. substance theme and always siding [on the sign/side?] of Substance over Form. But we have to listen carefully to everything he says, and he will say, we will qualify that by saying, “If there is a clash, a conflict between form and substance, we side with substance ”.

So anyway we made these books, and we try to make them, the form of the books as nice as possible, and stylistically, and another considerations. So then later some of devotees in India, at the Math, they got some inspiration, and they wanted to start publishing. And then some consideration came about whether they should spend money to buy new fonts or… this is all pre-Internet, pre-digital. So someone thinking that they would curry the favour of Srila Gurur Maharaj, they said, they argued that the form is not so important, it’s the substance of the book, that’s what matters, how they’re presented formally we’re not so much concerned with that. And they thought that Guru Maharaj will say, “Oh, yes, he has the right understanding.” But Guru Maharaj ever want to surprise, not to be stereotyped, he disagreed. And he said, with his use of analogy and example, which he is noted for, he said, “Our goal is Vrindavan.” Radhika madhava syam, ostensibly (?) that’s the goal of all Gaudia-vaisnavas is the highest aspect of the Vaikuntha world, the adhokshaja-world, lower hemisphere, Vaikuntha, the upper hemisphere, the highest, Goloka, Vrindavan. So Guru Maharaj said, “In Vrindavan, form and substance are one, they are identical.” That’s why we say, the trees, the plants, the flowers, they are all chinmoy. Vaikunthera-pritty-vyadi-sakala-chinmoy. Everything in the spiritual world, it’s form is an expression of its dedicating tendency. As here body is the biological expression of the soul’s delusion. That’s why there is jala-jan-nava-lakhani-stavra-laka-binkshati. Padma-purana is saying, eight million four hundred thousand species. Don’t trip out on the numbers, if you take three colours, RGB, or red, yellow, blue, whichever one you want to deal with, and start combining them you’ll get how many variations? Millions. So taking these three tama, raja, sattva. Millions of variations. That’s what they’re telling you. Body is the biological expression of the soul’s delusion, it’s the outcome of exploiting tendency.

Saying these elements, these mundane elements, formal (?) body, the gross body, that is built upon subtle body, which is based upon ego, so it’s all… And what is that ego tendency? Kartha-ham-iti-manyate, another Gita śloka. What does it say?

I’ll say it again ahankar, ego, the ego of exploitation, exploiting tendency, hrd-rogam, the heart infused with consumer tendency, expressing that. The exploiting tendency, body is generated from there. But there is another world, what is it? Parastasmat-tabhavanyo, jivadbhuta sanatana, but beyond this world, there is another world where the body is based upon dedicating tendency. So Guru Maharaj said, “In that plane form and substance are one.”

And I was just remembering, when I first went to the temple, the Sri Sri Radha Krishna Temple, in Haight-Ashbury, in 1969, December of 1969. The devotees… and I say this with affection Trivikram Maharaj, he gets some joy, when I say, my, what was it like? And I said, “I thought they were like delightful lunatics, the group.” But I remember they were always telling me this, pointing to the sky, “You see that sky?” I was like, “Yeah.” They say, “Beyond that sky, there is another sky, called the spiritual sky, full of planets.” And I am like, “Wow, man, far-out!” But they are quoting Bhagavad-gita, paratasmat-bhavanyo-…,  beyond that sky, there is another sky. So that world, and which is the world of our aspiration, is the forms are the outcome of the dedicating tendencies. So there form and substance are one. Here, in this plane, Srila Guru Maharaj is telling us, that if there is insinc (?), the formal aspect of something, and the substantial, here subjective, the inner aspect of it, if they are congruous, if they are one, then everything is okay. But in the event that they are in contradiction, then we put our emphasis toward the subjective aspect.

Like there is a famous, Nyaya-shastra, nyaya means logic, so there is the Nyaya-sastra. So there is one type of logic, called, nagna-matrica-nyaya, which means the logic, or the fallacy, you can say, the fallacy of the naked mother, the logic of the naked mother, the fallacy of the naked mother logic. And what that means, is to say that a child could reasonably, rationally, factually think, “Oh, my mother was once a naked girl,” they could think that and it would all be true, but we’re being told here, if you focus on that so-called objective reality, what is just objectively true, you’ll be deluded from perceiving the subjective aspect, the reality of what is before you at present. So when the mother is before the child, she is there on the capacity of the mother, that objectively speaking, so-called factually speaking, in the past, she was on some other condition, some other position is irrelevant to the present. So we’re told that sort of thing should be suppressed. So in the lives of servitors, we have to also deal with our past, or what sometimes called prarbha-karma, the karma that you stuck with in this life that you generated, we generated this particular body and karmic circumstances, before coming in connection with Krishna Consciousness. So it has so much karmic destiny (in play?). Then someone comes in connection with Krishna Consciousness. Rupa Goswami says in Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu,

He is outlining what is Krishna-bhakti substantially and what is the outcome, or what are symptoms, what are side effects, everything is being taken into consideration, beginning with klesh-agni, saying, the conventional suffering that’s associated with being embodied, prarabdha-karma, you accumulated karma in this life, he says, [it will put into that?]. Now, people will say, but we see, devotees are suffering in different ways, it’s not that you come in connection with Krishna Consciousness, and you never get the flu again.

When Gurudev was riding on the train, he would go from Navadwip to Calcutta, when he was Gauredu Brahmachari, and just like people in modern times they might say about us (?), “Oh, you know, the harekrishna, there was the harekrishna on the train.”  These are Bengalis, and said that time, they called them Gaurangas, so they are like, “Hey, gauranga, we gonna talk to the gauranga.” And they are talking to Gurudev at the time, who is Gaurendu Brahmachari, and they are saying, “If the devotees, they are devotees they are supposed to be liberated, how can we see that they get sick. Really, they should be free from any sort of disease, and just always be healthy. Why should they be in an unhealthy, diseased condition on any such thing?” And Gurudev answered by saying, “No, just the opposite, because the devotees they are escaping maya, they are on the way out the material world, so they should be attacked with many varieties of things.”

Guru Maharaj would sometimes say also, that Bamshidas Babaji Maharaj, he in his final, who was revered by Srila Saraswati Thakur, as being a substantial devotee, a raga-marg-bhakta, and what do we hear about him? That he is not showing so much the external trimmings-trappings of the vaiṣṇava, he is in fact, we hear, he is scattering fish scales on the outside of the ashram, so people will think he is bogus, sometimes they see him smoking, he offering tea to Gaur-Nityananda. So many people think, “This guy is totally bogus, we’re not going to go near him, and he’s bad association even.” But he is verified by Saraswati Thakur as being a substantial raga-marg bhakta in vatsalya-rasa. And he told his disciples, if by going to see him, and his way of dress, his ashram, these activities, it will cause you to think of him offensively, then you’ll be committing an offense towards a great vaiṣṇava, and that will be very detrimental to your spiritual progress, so better that you don’t go. But again it was someone who was qualified. In the case of Srila Guru Maharaj, he could go, observe him, and keep his faith intact. And he said sometimes Bamshidas Babaji Maharaj would be seen, he would chastise, he’d be half into the spiritual world and half conscious in this world, and he would say, cause everyone they are sort of observing him, and Bamshidas Babaji Maharaj will say, “Rupa Manjari is moving in the plane of service, and she has some necessity, and you’re all just sitting here doing nothing.” He would say things like that.

Another time, Gurudev said he saw in the inner world, Gaur and Nityananda Prabhu were climbing some tree and Bamshidas Babaji, “Nitay, be careful, Nitaya, be careful!” And he became so concerned with for the welfare of Nityananda Prabhu, he also climbed the tree, and then he fell out of the tree onto the ground, broke his back. So in this world he broke his back, in the spiritual world that’s meaningless to him, that he broke his back, that does not bother him. It’s not impeding his devotional flow.

The Srimad Bhagavatam tells also of the, perhaps in the third canto, it says that, “As a drunkers, the caricature of a drunker, the stereotype as a drunkered, if an actor, comedian, wants to play a drunker, thye put their coat, half on, half off, and they adopt a particular behavior, so it says in the Bhagavatam, for a liberated soul, for a liberated soul, the body is like dress, so whether their body is on or off, half on, half off, they are unaware of that, those who are intoxicated with Krishna-prem, the bauty, charm and sweetness fo kKrishna, the nama, rupa, guna lila of Krishna, they are unaware.

As Bhaktivinod Thakur, sometimes in his final days, totally naked in his house, if someone came to see him, his attendant Krishna das would take sme cloth like this, sit him in his chair, and then put the cloth on him and then bring the people in. And Bhaktivinod Thakur, they would ask him some question, like, “Can you say something about Krishna-nam?” And Bhaktivinod half lost in the upper world, would say, “Krishna-nam!” and fall in the floor fainting.

So Bamshidas Babaji Maharaj like that in his final days, when his body was riddled with disease, Guru Maharaj said, he would sometimes say to the people, “Look, this is your vaiṣṇava! Look at your vaiṣṇava, you think I am a vaisnava, look at how I am suffering!” To sort of you could say test their faith about form vs. substance, what’s going on on (?) the inside.

So in that śloka of the Vraja-gopis, from the Gopi-gita, they told Krishna,

Like Rupa Goswami said, in the end of suffering, “Now we understand what suffering is. Suffering is on account of forgetfulness of Krishna, that is the root cause of all suffering”. bhayaṁ dvitīyābhiniveśataḥ syād/īśād apetasya viparyayo ’smṛtiḥ…(Srimad Bhagavatam: 11.2.37).

And that’s why we experience anxiety, kuntha, the Vai-kuntha, the world that’s free from that anxiety, is the world where one is lost in remembrance of Krishna. So the Vraja-gopis say, “Hearing, we want to hear, and not only want to hear talks about Krishna, but really, where that appears in the Srimad Bhagavatam, they actually aould like to speak to Krishna personally and hear something from Him. When they say, tava-kathamrtam, hearing about you, in one sense it’s a little bit of under-statement (?), they are searching for Krishna and they would like to hear something from Him. And they are saying, “Hearing about you and from you, and hearing your voice, that’s puts an end to all suffering.” They are also suffering, but their suffering is of a different type. They are suffering the fire of separation. …bāhye viṣa-jvālā haya, bhitare ānanda-maya, kṛṣṇa-premāra adbhuta carita (Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta: Madhya-līlā, 2.50)

That’s mentioned in the Chaitanya-charitamrta, that the adbuta-charit, the wonderful quality, characteristic of the Krishna-prem, is externally, is like one has been poisoned. They are suffering to the extreme. Like these Vraja-gopis mentioned Krishna in one of his pastimes he swallowed the forest fire, he did it twice. But it’s pointed out maybe Visvanath Chakravarti Thakur, he says, “Actually though the fire of separation burning in their hearts is millions of times more intense then any type of fire in this world.” That sort of fire is burning inside of them, so they are appealing to Kri[shna]. They are saying, “Coming in connection with you is supposed to put an end to suffering”, but we are so externally oriented, we are thinking about convetional suffering, they are so far beyond that, their suffering is viraha-bhav, the fire of separation, that’s causing pain in their hearts. So it says, yes, although externally it appears that the devotees are suffering, internally they are relishing ecstatic joy. Bahe, means externally, visha-jala hoy, like they are on fire, like they’ve been poisoned, bhitare ananda moi, internally they are in ecstatic condition.

So we consider that the better aspect of ourselves, the real and substantial aspect of ourselves is the outcome of the mercy of Guru and vaiṣṇava. We are not thinking of ourselves independently of that conception, that we brought something to the table, in terms of our acquired karmic tendencies, that we have something to offer, that’s not the actual thinking of a devotee. We are told the other day, Guru Maharaj is saying, we’re like clay, and the mercy of Guru in infusing the clay with some life, what is that life? Dedicating tendency. Seva-mayoyam loka. At the conclusion of the Kalyana-kalpataru, Bhaktivinod Thakur is talking about he nam-hatta, which is been rendered as the market place of the Holy Name of Krishna, of Nityanada Prabhu and Bhaktivinod Thakur describes himself as a sweeper at that nama-hatta. What’s the job of the sweeper? To sweep out the dirty things. So if you take it as a metaphore for the sampradaya in this line, it’s a seva that he is performing. But Srila Guru Maharaj points out that hearing that Srila Saraswati Thakur he said, “If Bhaktivinod Thakur is a sweeper in the nama-hatta of Nityananda Prabhu, then I am one of the straws in his broom, that’s my position, to be a straw in that broom.” And then Guru Maharaj said something very telling, “If we take it, that this is a sincere expression of his”, in other worlds, it’s not a clever reportee, or just clver use of world, a clever thing to say, but if we take it that what he is saying is sincere, then, “Bhaktivinod is in that position, then I am one of the straws in his broom.”

This is literally trnad-api-sunichena…humbler than a blade of grass, ne of the straw, trna. Guru Maharaj says, “Then we can understand what is the unit of measurement by which the swarup is constructed.” We say, jive svarup hoy krishnera nitya das, the unit of measurement, of the construction of the swarup. What is it constructed out of, as they told, the biological expression of the soul’s delusion is the body in the world of exploitation, in that plane, the swarup is the spiritually substantive from that’s an expression of acquired, accumulated dedicating tendencies. So in that plane, that’s why, from and substance are one. The subjective and the objective are one there.

Proper oneness conception

Like we have a knee-jerk reaction, being raised in the Krishna Consciousness movement, whenever we hear about oneness. So once Guru Maharaj was explaining type of sannyas name and it had the word aloka, and the word para-dveiti. So Guru Maharaj said, “What does that mean?” It seems to be saying, “The most illuminating concept is oneness, the highest concept is oneness.” [Jai Srila Bhakti Bimal Avadhut Maharaj ki jay!] And Guru Maharaj is saying, “Yes, the highest conception is oneness.” And everyone were “Uh!” like. We heard Prabhupad railed against this type of talk so many times. And Srila Guru Maharaj being the leading authority on Gaudia-siddhantha, and that’s why he is given a name Sridhar, Bhakti Raksak, the Guardian of Devotion. And Sridhar, one of the implications of the name Sridhar, Sridhar Swami, his opinion is above all others. And he is saying, “Oneness is the highest conception.” But then this how Guru Maharaj starts extracting. Just like Vraja-gopis, extract from slokas, from dialogues with Krishna so many, they take the meaning to the highest aspect of the subjective plane. As you say subjective, Guru Maharaj uses another word, “super-subjective” and then he has another word, “super-super-subjective”. He goes from the subjective word, to the super-subjective word, is a lower hemisphere of Vaikuntha, to the super-super-subjective word, that’s the aprakrta-lila of Krishna.

But anyway, so Guru Maharaj explained in this way, he said, “What is that oneness, that is the highest conception? It’s...ekātmānāv api bhuvi purā deha-bhedaṁ gatau tau caitanyākhyaṁ prakaṭam adhunā tad-dvayaṁ…(Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta: Ādi-līlā, 1.5) or …rādhā-bhāva-dyuti-suvalitaṁ naumi kṛṣṇa-svarūpam so he’s saying, when Krishna and Radharani come together, as Mahaprabhu, in the light of the conception of that oneness, that devotional mood, rādhā-bhāva-dyuti, it’s that light, that light, which is illuminating everything, that’s the highest conception of oneness. The union of Radha and Krishna. śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya rādhā-kṛṣṇa nahe anya, and the appearance of the Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

So our position will be that we mentioned this the other day, Srila Guru Maharaj telling, how even in practical circumstances, there is, by the aspiring devotees, there is an element of parakiya. And how did he express that? Put it in this way by saying, karmicly speaking, just in the vedic conception, the husband has some right to assert over the wife, so the karmic circumstances we’ve generated and find ourselves surrounded in, they have some right to assert themselves over us, we’ve generated them. We’re responsible for the circumstances we’re at. When we may say, “Then it’s inescapable.” In a certain way. But Guru Maharaj said, “Just as the husband has the right over the wife, she has a paramour in her heart, externally she is appearing to be dutifully responsible to the husband, the circumstances, internally she is given over to the paramour.” Guru Maharaj’s example is, “We are in the midst of karmic circumstances, that are asserting their rights, their demands over us, and that’s being exacted apparently. But internally in the heart, is the culture of Krishna Consciousness, we’re given over to the paramour, who in this sense is Krishna.”

So anyway these are some things that come to my mind, when you say that, I don’t know, if you have some specific thing that you want addressed. But…Hare Krishna. Does that answer your question at all?

Srimati Bhakti Lalita Devi: Yes.

Srila B.S. Goswami Maharaj: Okay. Any other question?

Senses: what are they meant for?

Srila B.B. Avadhut Maharaj: I have a question. When we film Bhadrinath story. There is a question or Guru Maharaj specifically talking about, Parikshit Maharaj is talking about senses. In this world senses are...It’s like everybody are trying to restrain their senses, trying to control them, but then he is talking about reality. Plane where the sense are veg (?), how did it come to Suka? How did he get that experience from the brahmanistha platform? […]

Srila B.S. Goswami Maharaj: Well, one thing we have to say. First is that, Krishna is known as Rishikesh, so we…, so there is two big slokas about pure devotion. One of them is

rishikena… So the question comes in the Veda-stuti, the eighty seventh chapter of the tenth canto Prayers of the Personified Vedas, they say, Parikshit Maharaj and Sukadev they are saying, “If the tongue is made out flash, the voice box, sound, ether, all these are from gross to subtle, still they are mundane elements, how can they vibrate anything spiritual?” It seems whatever they will produce it will also be mundane. They are mundane instruments and they produce mundane things. So they will produce, the end result will be mundane sound. But you’re telling us, there is spiritual sound and anavrtti sabda, through sound one can become liberated. It doesn’t…Please, explain that.

And it’s interesting, cause it intersects with Guru Maharaja’s repeated quoting of Jagadananda Pandit’s Prema-vivarta, where it says, namaksara bahiraya bate nama kabhu naya, he says, “The sound of the Holy Name is never, the holy name, kabhu naya, it doesn’t say sometimes, it’s never, so it’s not the sound, it’s never the sound, it’s spirit infused sound.” So the shorter, that’s the longest chapter in the tenth canto, of all of them. Many Upanishad speak. It’s very long and profound. In short, in a nutshell, Guru Maharaj is saying, “Yes, the finite cannot generate the infinite. Any amount of mundane of mundane cannot generate the spiritual. But the spiritual can use the finite to express something.” So it can come from up to down. It will never go from down to up. Also, vox popula is not vox Dei. The voice of the people is not the voice of God. So for to be infused, spirit can be sent, we’re discussing. There is Gopi-gita. And Vishvanath as I told earlier, he makes an observation, saying, “These gopīs were praying for Krishna to reveal Himself to them. They are living proof of the Upanishad śloka. Yam evaiṣa vṛṇute tena labhyas/tasyaiṣa ātmā vivṛṇute tanūṁ svām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad, 2.23) and Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad, 3.2.3). He reveals himself to whom he choses, through whom he choses.

So Srila Guru Maharaj, he will say, and Vishvanath Chakravarti Thakur says in his commentaries, “Really, the subject that’s being addressed here is why are the such things as sense and sense perception, it gets it to the very root of it, what is the purpose of seeing, of sight? Like if here from the revolutionary biologist, they will give the whole scenario, “Well, the reason, the human beings can see, and seeing the peripheral, the hunters are coming, so they need to protect themselves and they staying…” They have this whole idea of why and the ear, and it’s located here, and so when they get here this way, then their wife would be hear, and sometimes they don’t want to hear that. I think that’s in their somewhere, I joked, I mean, but you know you get the idea.

That’s not why you have senses. So this is part of the answer, the reason you’ve been given senses, ... How can we connect seeing, they are just flashy eyeballs, the flashy ear, etc. And the answer is, “No, no, the reason you have eyes is to see Krishna, it’s for spiritual purpose, the reason you have ears is to hear Hari-katha, the flute sound of Krishna, the name of Krishna, the reason you have smell, is to smell the aroma.” Every single sense you have the whole purpose behind it, is o perceive Krishna. That’s what they are for. And that’s why they’ve been gifted to you, and that’s why you have this extraordinary opportunity to become liberated in this lifetime. They are actually not meant for anything else. And we’ll say, “Well, that’s a fanatical position, that is presented by different devotee, but we’ve got to be realistic, you know. The bills got to be paid on time.” That’s just how deluded we are. Yes, you have to give attention to those things in this world, but to think that the sole purpose of possessing all this sensory capacity is for a such a low target, is sort of pathetic or not inspiring. So the real purpose of all of these things is to do that.

Just like in Rukmni’s prayer.

And it get haratam tapa (?), the same thing as the kamasha-apaham, of the Vraja-gopis statement, and statement of Rupa Goswami, is saying, “Relieving the suffering…” And we’re back to thing, “But we see that they are suffering”, then it must mean something else, it must have the deeper level meaning to that. But anyway here Rukmini is saying, “Now I understand hearing about you, and out of the sound of hearing about you, the divine sound of hearing your description, your form appeared to me. And now I understand you’re the most beautiful thing in the world. Now I understand, why we have eyes, now I understand, why we have ears.”

Sukadev has been selected as an instrument to broadcast the Srimad Bhagavatam

Now the case of Sukadev Goswami. According to Srila Guru Maharaj, he’s been selected to be the loudspeaker to broadcast the Krishna conception, and the pastimes of Krishna, particularly with Radharani and Vraja-gopis, because he’s ostensively not a devotee. He says in the beginning to Pariksit Maharaj when they meet, when all the sages have assembled from all the Universe offered him a presidential sit. He says, paranistitopi nirgune uttama śloka lilaya(?), so he says, parinistita nairgunera, nirguna, everyone knows, he’s legendary, it’s the legendary Sukadev Goswami, liberated in the womb of his mother, said, “I started out in the nirguna plane, because up to that point everyone else who had, it says, burini buri karmani (?), everyone was giving different advice to Pariksit Maharaj. Someone is saying, “You should do yoga.” Others saying, “Penance, austerity, meditate.” And Guru Maharaj says, “Why?” Because they are sincerely advising him in terms of what was helpful to them. So they are saying, this is what worked for me and becoming free from mundane attachment. So they are recommended that. Pariksit Maharaja’s response was to say, “I have seven days, I have very short time, so I want you to all get together and form a consensus and then present your unanimous verdict to me. After you meet as a group and discuss all the possible different types of spiritual advice, put it together and give me the unanimous verdict of all of you.” That’s when Sukadev arrived. And then they saw, how perfect is this. The person who is really qualified to answer that has arrived.

And then what does Sukadev say by way of introduction, “Yes, as you all know, I was in the nirguna plane, I didn’t have to engage in some sort of practice to overcome my mundane tendencies, cause I didn’t have any.” That’s why he is selected. But he is not yet a devotee. So he’s saying. And you understand, through one person they just cleaned the whole (?). He is saying, “I have no mundane tendencies.” Then they say, “Well, let’s hear what he has to say then.” And that’s when he says, uttama śloka lilaya… “When I heard this uttama śloka, incredibly beautiful wonderful songs of Krishna, and my mind, heart, consciousness was carried away to another domain, that I didn’t know existed previously.” So that mean he was in the nirguna plane on the outskirts, and he went higher into that super-super-subjective world, he had a glimpse of that, and he’s saying, “And that captured me heart and soul, captured my consciousness.”

But Guru Maharaj, when I asked him a question once, “Why does it say in the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindu, at the end of the chapter, a neutral love of God, shanta-rasa, it says, Bilvamangal Thakur, and Sukadev Goswami are the two best examples. And Sukadev Goswami, he is giving all this the madhura-rasa pastimes of Krishna, and here it’s saying, he’s given example of shanta-rasa, it seems to be ontologically perplexing, and Guru Maharaj said, “Yes, he was used as a vehicle, an instrument to broadcast these things and after they were broadcast, he said, he went back to his group.” So he was used for sometime to broadcast something that was in a sense, like the hanuveti, sukaveti, vyasoveti, (?). I said here to Guru Maharaj and we laughed, cause I said, here Shiva says, “I know the meaning, Sukadev knows and Vyas knows.” And I said, “Maharaj, now you’re saying that Suka doesn’t know.” And he laughed, and he said, “To a certain point.” And he took it even further, “Shiva, he knows to a certain extend.”  These are things that he said. So he’s saying he was used instrumentally to broadcast these things. When that was finished, then he, like when someone will get inspired and expressed something, when that is finished they are back in their former position.

Srila B.B. Avadhut Maharaj: But when Vyas rejected his … ten slokas…(?)

Srila B.S. Goswami Maharaj: The tenth ślokas go from Narada to Vyas.

Srila B.B. Avadhut Maharaj: Right. Vyas comprehends those concepts fully or it’s…

Srila B.S. Goswami Maharaj: No, it’s like mantram, Narada told in seed form within those ten slokas, and then told, “You meditate on this, and it will come out.” Then Vyas he meditates on the banks of the Saraswati, then this divine inspiration comes to him. And that śloka say, aham vettmi suka vetti, vyasa vetti navetti va, Vyas may know or may not know, so he’s also an instrument, and Mahaprabhu, that śloka comes from Mahaprabhu, that śloka comes from Mahaprabhu telling Sanatan Goswami, that what’s passing through me, I may not be fully aware of that. But what I am certain of is Krishna wants to grace you through me. That much I hundred percent certain of, but what’s passing through me, I don’t claim to understand all of that fully, it’s infinite. He says, even one letter, one word of the Bhagavatam is infinite. As Sanatan was praising him, having given the sixty explanations of the atmarama śloka at that point. Then Sanatan would say, “This is divine, you’re God Himsef.” And Mahaprabhu, “No, no, saying, it’s your necessity, that’s drawing this through me.” And then he gave the sixty first explanation. So we can see also, that Vyas has some necessity, he’s filling some despondency, despite having given Mahabharata, compiling all of these Vedic literatures, something in his, there is a disturbance in his heart, Narada comes and says, “I know why, because even though, you’ve presented Krishna conception in different places, and although it was not your intention, inadvertently people could interpret that in a mundane way, with some mundane color, and in the name of religion they’ll remain bound. That’s the difficulty.” It will be religion, which keeps people, that will be the very thing, that keeps people bound to the world. And will be quoting your name as the sanctioner.

Love actually

Srila B.B. Avadhut Maharaj: Why is it bound?

Srila B.S. Goswami Maharaj:Because as told inadvertently gave people the idea that you can perform some religious, ritualistic activities, etc. and be happy in this world. What would be the need to immigrate to the upper world? If every thing you could possibly want can be achieved here through regulating yourself according to the Scriptures. That’s why at he heart of the Bhagavatam, he is saying, tad eva tad achyuta priya, achyuta priya and svarupena vivasthiti, saying, you’ve not given them the impression or the understanding that the swarup, and we’re back to the original question, the form, you have a form in the spiritual world, where the actual type of loving relationships you seek, loving exchange can be fully properly realized. …muktir hitvānyathā rūpaṁ/sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 2.10.6)

Otherwise people have the idea, just as they, you know that, mukti or liberation means become free from the body and all the suffering that’s attributed to being embodied, and then merging into some sort of impersonal existence. So Srila Prabhupad in his Bhagavatam commentary, in the first śloka the Srimad Bhagavatam says that mayavadis indirectly give emphasis for mundane sexual affairs, because they deny he possibility of the erotic principle being present in the spiritual domain, which is the heart of the matter of the Krishna-lila. Goes through ten cantos to bring you to this point of understanding that the Erotic Principle and Unalloyed Devotion as put by professor Sannyal under the auspices of Saraswati Thakur.

Obiously, it’s something that has to be discussed in a very cautious and delicate way, but that’s at the root of the matter. And so it means sensuous capacity and engagement. So again, that’s Sukadev, who is the loudspeaker for the Bhagavatam. Why every event is there? Just like in this world they say like in a short story. You can’t have any information in there that is uncritical to the story or this is not such a short story, but everything there is critical. So earlier we hear, what seems to be in one sense to just be some story, it’s interesting, it’s an anecdotal story, it has the peripheral interest that Vyas is running after Sukadev, the divya-devis are bathing and they are naked, when Sukadev goes by, they make eye contact and they don’t’ bother to cover themselves. And then when Vedavyas comes, the great Vedavyas, they cover themselves, out of shyness and shame. And Vyas, observing this said, “I don’t understand why?” And they are saying, “Well, that boy, we could see in his eyes, no lust, there is nothing mundane there. Just like a little child.” That type of innocence. He doesn’t see a naked woman, the form of a naked woman.” So there is no necessity for the…We see. And you…Vedavyas, “You’re talking to me?!” And you know, “Don’t mind it, but we’re covering.”

So you think, “Oh, it’s an interesting story.” But it sets up later, so when Sukadev comes, he is that Sukadev, who has that, just a little children, that it’s naked woman or any such thing. That Sukadev says, so we’ve already established, he is in a nirguna plane, above tama, raja and sattva-gun, has no interest, even remotely, he’s no even like trace amounts of exploiting tendency toward women, sexuality, and he’s saying, “I heard these pastimes of Krishna with Radharani and Vraja-gopis, and was captured heart and soul and carried away to another world, that I couldn’t even conceive existed previously. That’s why it comes from him. That certifies that then it cannot be the mundane affairs of men and women in this world. Then one may say, “You mean then there is erotic potential in the spiritual existence with the Supreme Entity?” That is a mind-blowing conclusion, but that’s what is being suggested in a most cautious careful way.

Srila B.B. Avadhut Maharaj:So can we say that that’s sort of news or message, the highest principle key of the Bhagavatam?

Srila B.S. Goswami Maharaj: Guru Maharaj put it in his sloka:

So he is saying, “The Bhagavatam, whatever you may see there, as we told on the Nrisimhadev in a little summary. Well, we heard in the first canto, second canto, so many avatars, incarnations, Sukadev to Pariksit Maharaj, these great sages of Siddha-loka having discussions, Kapila to Devahuti in the third canto, Puranjana in the forth canto, the four Kumaras, the fifth canto, the hellish planets, all these different things are described, the prayers, Rishabhadev instructions to his son, Ajamil in the sixth canto, Chitraketu, that pastime, seventh canto, Prahlad, eight canto, Vamadev, Mohini Murti, ninth canto, Rama-lila, Ambarish, everything. What is Guru Maharaj saying in his sloka? …pratipadam anubhutam apy alabdhabhideya. At every step of the way, every chapter, every pastime, it’s meant to take you to one place. What is that? Sri rasha pada padmam prapadye. To surrend yourself to the lotus feet of Sriati Radharani, and engage in Radha-dasyam, to serve her holy lotus feet. That’s the purpose of all of this, of every story of every talk, of every indication of the Book. That’s pretty extraordinary. That’s what is revited (?) of nam-sankirttan, of everything, why you have senses.

Srila B.B. Avadhut Maharaj: Did Maharaj Pariksit achieve that level?

Srila B.S. Goswami Maharaj:  These, it’s all lila, pastimes, so, as I told recently, Arjun, when he sees the Viratha-rupas, apologizing to Krishna for being too friendly. But Krishna likes Arjun to be friendly, no apology necessary. But he feels like that, like, “You know, I forgot you were God, I am really sorry about that, I’ll try, next okay? Anyway, it’s lunch time.” It’s hard to like when someone just shows the Viratha-rupa, how do you respond to that? So he is saying, “Forgive me for being too friendly, and that one time I was like maybe a little, you know, insulting.” But Krishna, we hear in other place, that’s what he likes, is when you forget his divine aspect, and deal with him in a friendly way or even more than friendly. So, what was that you said?

Pariksit Maharaj: The mystery of his leaving the world

Srila B.B. Avadhut Maharaj: Did Pariksit Maharaj…?

Srila B.S. Goswami Maharaj: Oh, Maharaj Pariksit. So Pariksit Maharaj, remember, his mother is Uttara. And in the beginning of the Bhagavatam, she is running to Krishna, mahayogi…, the Pandavas are there with Krishna, the war is finished, and Uttara comes running, and everyone are shocked and what’s happening, there is a brahmastra is chasing her, and she is pregnant with Pariksit Maharaj. So Krishna saves him. He enters into the expanse, enters into the womb of Uttara, the brahmastra comes, the Pariksit. He has, we’re told, he has some glimpse of the Lord at that time, so Pariksit means, one who examines, pariksa, so he is always examining everyone and everything, he is always remembering that glimpse. Bhaktivinod Thakur says, like we saw lightening earlier in the night, and we go, lightening comes. And just for a moment, everything is illumined, and you see, and then vanishes. So Krishna’s appearance has been described like that in different ways. Anyway, that’s part of the back-story, driving Pariksit Maharaj in life, why he is such a stuit (?) observer and examiner.

So that Pariksit Maharaj, who after all he listened (?) from Sukadev Goswami, we’re told at the end, now Sukadev as Guru Maharaj said, he is going back, where he was before, wonders off, all the sages are living and Tarksa, Tarksaka, snake, so called snake-bird, who is supposed to kill Pariksit Maharaj. He sees these sages are living, and he also sees, there is Jaimini Rishi, and he sees different ones. And he sees, I forget, whether it’s Agastya or who, who can counteract the poison, the snake venom. So he takes the form of a brahman and he, it’s just like India. Maharaj, I want to give one gift to you. And he is giving him nice things, like Sagar Maharaj pointed out in Garga-samhita, so many sages like to sit up in the mountains, being really away from  the world. They’d never seen sugar before, they thought it was sand. They are going, “This sand is incredible. Did you try the sand?”

So he is giving gold, all kinds of things, “Maharaj, you take, I saw you in the Bhagavatam. You’re…you know.  This is my situation.” He gives them gifts and gets them away from there. Now when everyone is gone, except for Jaimini Rishi is hiding in the bushes. There is always one really smart person hiding in the bushes. It’s just the truth. So he is hiding in the bushes. So this Tarksaka, he comes in the form of brahmin, “Maharaj, Parikit Maharaj, I give my dandavat-pranam.” And he bows down and then his teeth come out, like the vampire, the teeth come out, and he bites him on the lotus foot. But this is how the Bhagavatam. Someone will say, “Oh, I heard another…” Yes, there are other versions in other Puranas and other places, and Guru Maharaj says, it’s like hypnotism, as the hypnotist compels one to see, that he will see. This is the description in Srimad Bhagavatam.

So then, but before that…Just think, those sages, they left, he placated them, and then he comes, how much time could that be? From them going to him coming, giving his dandavat, and biting the lotus feet of Pariksit Maharaj, infusing, injecting venom, and his body explodes in flames. But before that time, just that time, we hear in Brihad-bhagavatmrtam, that Jaimini Rishi who is hiding in the bushes. Before that happened, he is telling Janamejoy, the son of Pariksit Maharaj, “Your grandmother, Uttara, like hse came running in the beginning of the Bhagavatam, she came running again to Pariksit Maharaj and said, “Son, you’ve just heard all this nectar from Sukadev, can you share some with your dear mother?” So then Pariksit Maharaj says, “I am glad that you came, because one by one I was turning off my senses.” Like we go round, turn off the water, turn off the light, turn off the fan, close the window. So he said, “I was just going to shut down all of my senses. Because by the time Tarksaka gets there, Pariksit Maharaj, what’s left is really a body. He is maintaining it, but it’s completely at that point disconnected from his body. So he is biting, the body burst in flame, but Pariksit Maharaj he is extraordinary. But so then Uttara sits there, and we hear, and it was also indicated earlier in the Bhagavatam, and Sanatan Goswami reveals that. In this one sloka, mystic sloka, where are all these divine ladies are mentioned , her is there, but there is another name there, that can indicate her. So that means that her name, in this sense, is indicated twice, which is a way of in a subtle, mystical, incriptic way, saying, “She has some extraordinary qualities and capacity, as an intended recipient of madhura-rasa.” So she is the one, who says to Pariksit Maharaj told the whole Brhad-bhagavatmrtam to. That was overheard by Jaimini Rishi in the bushes. He is telling Janamejoy what Pariksit Maharaj told your grandmother. And it’s Uttara, after the first part, she says, “Now that you’ve told me so much about the spiritual world, and all these gradations of the planetary systems and everything, from gross to subtle and then into the divine world, of what I hear of the Vaikuntha world and of what I hear of Radharani and the Vraja-gopis, and Nanda and Yasoda, and Sridam and Sudam, the type of love they have for Krishna, I just feel in my heart, there must be some other place, where they live to accommodate them. Because although the Vaikuntha world is so beautiful and extraordinary, and what I’ve heard you described and what we hear in the Scriptures, and what the great sages say. But when I hear about them and that kind of love and affection they have for Krishna, I’m just convenced I don’t know some sastra to quote or woething, but in my heart it’s telling me that there is another world that they live in and I would like you to tlee me about that. And then that’s what the second half, is the Goloka-mahatmya, the first is different, we can’t go onto all of that. But so we can understand , she is extraordinary, Pariksit Mahraj is extraordinary, the expansion and contraction of time and space. Between the time Tarksaka placated the sages and goes to bite the lotus feel of Pariksit Maharaj, Uttara came running in and he spoke the whole Brhad-bhagavatamrtam to her. So if that’s possible what is not possible. And those divine personalities, who are selected, cat to play this part, how extraordinary they must be, and it’s far beyond the judgment of the fallen souls myself. But we can understand they are extraordinary. Hare Krishna!