The transformative power of the Holy Name

Any questions from anyone?

Q: The day before, on the last lecture we touched the issue of unique position of pure devotion. And I just wanted to add another issue to this topic, and to ask, if you said that Saraswati Thakur, dedicated his life to show what is not devotion and then you say…IMITATION OF DEVOTION. A HUNDRED CAUTIONS OF SARASWATI THAKUR

GM: No, I didn’t say that. For the sake of accuracy. What I said is, according to Srila Guru Maharaj, he shed a hundred gallons of blood to show what madhura-rasa is not. So he wrote one book, called Prakrta-rasa-sata-dusani. He points one hundred faults of prakrta-sahajiyism or what he calls them imitationist, those who are imitating the position of devotees, imitating devotion. RupaGoswami warns of this in the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu. This is the Rupanuga-line, so if RupaGoswami singles out something, as a caution, we have to take it very seriously. So he warns, says, two types of cautions are there. Those who are sentimental by nature, they cry over anything and everything. He’s saying, “You may see that they are also crying about Krishna, don’t confuse that with divine symptoms. They are just sentimental. That’s all. It’s just sentimentalism. Do not equate that with pure devotion.” On the other side, he says, there is acting, part of acting is imitation. So someone can, as we know from observing actors and actresses, and I’ve mentioned for Russians particularly Stanislavsky, creator of the so called “method”. By imitating someone, that you can pose as though you’re humble, you’re moved, your heart feels a particular way, that you’re feeling a particular emotion. And convince others to that effect. RupaGoswami is warning against that. Why? If there are not people who are doing these very things, why should Sri Rupa, the very leader of this line warn all of those in the line about this.So Srila Saraswati Thakur gives a hundred cautions like this, and I made an observation, why one hundred negatives. Kabena, bole na,kabhuna, they will never say this, never do this, never, not, no. Why one hundred nos? To make it abundantly clear what it is. It’s another way, through indirect expression to, as we’re told science of devotion by RupaGoswami. So part of science is to show, “These things cannot be that particular thing.” So he comes to identifying this substance, what it is. It’s helpful. 

Q: Yes, so can we say that this is the meaning of the word “war” in the statement, that he declared totalitarian war against all the misconceptions, and how to match this with his vaikuntha-vrtti principle, that he sees value for service in everything?VAIKUNTHA-VRITTI PRINCIPLE AND WAR AGAINST MISCONCEPTIONS

GM: Well, we have to understand, what all these things are, rather than jumble them indiscriminately. So his position must be consistent. And it must be consistent with KrishnadasKaviraj, RupaGoswami, etc. So on this point, what do we hear to conclusion of Madhya-lila?Kṛṣṇa-līlāamṛta-sāra, tāraśataśatadhāra, daśa-dike vaheyāhāhaite (Sri Chairanya-charitamrita: Madhya-lila, 25.271).He is telling us, it’s drawing a comparison between Krishna-lila and Gaura-lila, and it’s telling us, that Krishna-lila is the highest, līlāamṛta-sāra, the crème-de-la-crème of spiritual substance. But it is inaccessible, as we discussed, koṭiṣvapimahā-mune (Śrīmad Bhāgavatam: 6.14.5), koṭi-mukta-madhye ‘durlabha’ ekakṛṣṇa-bhakta(ŚrīCaitanya-caritāmṛta: Madhya-lila,19.148), Mahaprabhu is teaching RupaGoswami. And what is hetelling? This is infinite, but I’ll take one drop and explain that, that’s where he says, out of ten million liberated souls, one may be a devotee of Krishna, who is qualified for that ultimate nectarine substance, so what does that mean? It means that it’s inaccessible for the most part. If one out of ten million liberated souls can…Then what is there for ordinary people? So this is why he is drawing the contrast at the conclusion of the Madhya-lila, he is saying, “Yes, Krishna-lila is like that, it’s inaccessible, most exclusive, so many are excluded from that, as connotation increases, denotation decreases.”THE TANSFORMATIVE POWER OF SPIRITUAL SUBSTANCEWhat’s the good news? That Gaura-lila is Krhna-lila in distribution mode. So here das-dike means the ten directions, means it’s being mercifully extended, beyond that exclusive group, to those who are otherwise unqualified. So Srila Saraswati Thakur, his vaikuntha-vritti, here vaikuntha means in this sense, liberal, generous, in a mode of generosity, he’s trying to bring others in connection with this substance. But what does that mean? More specifically, like we hear the concept of “sparshamani”, means touchstone, but touchstone in the sense of transformative. So he has the faith, that if unqualified people will come in connection with this, they will become qualified, not that they will remain unqualified, they will become qualified. 

Sometimes when we speak of diksa, initiation, we hear in Hari-bhakti-vilas, what’s a qualified Guru, who is the qualified disciple, and how this transaction transpires. But Guru Maharaj said, for the most part, what is being enacted is called “tantric” initiation, another word “tantric” conjures many notions in modern context, people only associate tantric with one thing. But here what it means in the context of this discussion. Is those who are unqualified are being given an opportunity to become qualified. So that means, to just spell it out. Perhaps a qualified Guru is giving an unqualified person a chance, thinking, “When they come in connection with this, they will be transformed.”And then there should be some Bhagavatam principle, that this is consistent with, so we hear,

Second canto of the Bhagavatam. Whether you’re akāmaḥ, free from desire, mokṣa-kāma, desiring liberation, sarva-kāmo, full of desires, udāra-dhīḥ, udāra, like audarya, means magnanimous, from a magnanimous position, just direct yourself toward Krishna. And coming in connection with Krishna, somewhere along the way, some transformation is going to take place. STORY OF DHRUVA MAHARAJAs we find in the case of Dhruva Maharaj, his mundane desires were extraordinary, of extraordinary magnitude. He wanted a kingdom greater than that of his father and grand-father, etc. Means basically Brahma, he wants a kingdom greater than the Universe. Not a kingdom within the Universe, a Kingdom greater than the Universe. And to achieve that end, it is taken sometimes that his mother is a vartma-pradakshaka Guru, pata-pradarshaka, she indicating, “Go in this direction”. The only person who can fulfill this kind of desire is God. “Where is this God?” “Well, sages look for him in the forest”. Aranya, Van, so many sannyas names to deal with the forest. Particularly, Arana, Van.

So, but Dhruva Maharaj, so his initial approach he is in the sarva-kāmoposition, he is approaching God to fulfill some desire, that’s his initial approach. But the transformation takes place along the way. As he realizes the Lord within his heart, following the directions of Narada, so he has come in contact with the proper agent, now he is under the guidance of the vaiṣṇava, Guru. He is following his direction. We may say, as Guru Maharaj says, “To get out of the mud, you may have to walk though the mud for some time.”That we can see it. To get out of the mud, I mean, that’s not always that Vishnu comes down on Garuda and you know, Gajapati, krpa-sarava (?), you know. You may have to walk though the mud for a while, but with the intention of coming out of it. 

But anyway Dhruva he sees the Lord within his heart, he undergoes some transformation, his meditation breaks. Much to his sadness, but when he opens his eyes, he sees, whom he was meditating upon within his heart is now standing before him. And what does he say? (?) It’s a famous śloka, where now with some shame, you can say, he gives vent to this expression, “I was searching for broken pieces of glass, for shard, that’s what my wanting of kingdom, greater then the Universe, is like broken pieces of glass, and now I’ve found the most valuable gam, diamond, beyond what I imagined.” So, some transformation took place along the way. And it is his guru Narad Rishi, Muni, told, yenatenaprakarena mane krishneniveshane (?). The advances devotees, those of advanced spiritual vision, they will devise ways and means maybe even novel ways and means to bring people in connection with Krishna conception. 

So, what is the difference between that, the vaikuntha-vritti of Saraswati Thakur, and the utpata-yaiva-kalpate, the Rupa Goswami’s condemning thing, neophytes, unqualified people, adulterating the substance of Krishna consciousness, introducing deviant practices, what is the difference between that? Who will make this determinations? So, Guru Maharaj with his credentials, a Bhattacharya Brahmin, expresses his surprise and shock in response to what Saraswati Thakur is expressing and willing to employ to bring others into connection with Krishna consciousness. And Saraswati Thakur makes the point that this isn’t the whimsical thought, something that just came into my mind recently, ten thousand years ago I made this decision. Like a shock it comes to Guru Maharaj. So, sometimes Guru Maharaj will say, that “Goal is the most exclusive, the means maybe all-inclusive.” Or in another context he says, have a sign that says, “Welcome to the land of no admission.” Like when we see a room, where it says, “No admission.” Means no one can go in there. But you’re been welcomed to the land of no admission. The land of no admission in this case means Krishna Consciousness. Mahaprabhu’s Krishna Conception, liberal distribution, audarya-lila, as Guru Maharaj says also, as a footnote, “Gaur Gadadhar is Radhaand Krishna, that’s their acharya-lila, distribution.” 

At the same time, I pointed out the other day, Mahaprabhu is known as maha-vadanyaya-avatar, patita-pavana gaura hari, etc. he can’t tolerate apa-siddhanta, like Guru Maharaj, what did he say? “Opposition is more tolerable than imitation.” Because opposition has a place to enhance the position of the bona-fide, it’s an indirectly lila-nourishing. So, that Saraswati Thakur, who is saying he can arrange the youth-hostel, I mean have a youth-hostel in London, and arrange for a local restaurant a non-vegetarian food, will not allow harmonium in a kirttan. 

When the manager, the Gaudia Math, they did not have so much money, he wants, rented the equivalent of the Nat Mandir, the kirttan-hall, for some other type of religious performance. And when that came to be known by Saraswati Thakur, he expressed his disapproval. Oh, and the manager told, “Well, we’ve received the deposit.” He said, “Give them their money back.” And he said, “And I want you to put up a sign on the wall that says “Sravanasadhan”, which you in the ChaitanyaSaraswat Math to this day, means when we’re rendering that is “The house of hearing.” And he is saying, “You can only come here and hear our guru-varga, you can’t make another vibration. You can come to hear them directly or hear about them and their concepts, from those who are qualified to represent them. But you can’t come and do a kirttan, give a talk, make some other vibration.” 

So, that person, who is saying, he’s willing to do all these very broad things to bring people in connection with genuine spiritual substance, he doesn’t harmonium in his kirttans, he is very strict about other things. Why? Because they have to be brought in connection with actual substance, not something else. And Guru Maharaj, ever want (?) to give an appropriate example, he said, “Using the hall for some other purpose, is like renting your wife.” Generally we don’t rent the wife. That’s the level he saw that. What is meant for a specific purpose, exclusively for that we are not in the name of, “Well, this will bring some money or this will help the mission.”Or many things. Guru Maharaj does not allow like jiulan-yatra (?) in his maths. Those who are faithful to his conception, means the swinging (?) of Radha and Krishna deities. And he said, “Others may say, “Oh, it brings many people to the temple, and then they give donations, and then those donation help to spread Krishna Consciousness.” His response, “Na dhanaṁnajanaṁnasundarīṁkavitāṁvājagad-īśakāmaye mama janmanijanmanīśvarebhavatādbhaktirahaitukītvayi” (Śikṣāṣṭaka 4).I am not interested in money, followers, etc. I want to be, I am an aspiring servitor of Mahaprabhu. So there are many things to consider, when it comes to this. GOLD STANDARD

Q: Yes, what you said is perfect, I just wanted to maybe clarify in our position how to find this golden mean between appreciating our idea and to not offend, or be like narrow, religious, sectarian minded, and arrogantly reject other ideas.GM: Well, it’s like, say you are dealing with gold, you want to be a gold merchant, or be involved in a gold business. And so you can rephrase you could, “Well, I don’t want to insult any other people, who come presenting what they have, they think it’s gold, I don’t want hurt anybody’s feelings.” It will mean you will have to become acquainted with identifying what is gold in all of its levels. And if you can’t, you can only work under the direction of someone who does, who has that knowledge. So, there is a way of determining what is 24 carat gold, what is 22, 18, 14, 12, what’s gold-plate, gold wash, gold leaf, what’s imitation gold. 

So, just as you say, “But I don’t want to insult any other customers.” Yes, there is a tactful way to explain to them, “We have a process by which we can determine, whether or not this is real gold or not.” I mean this is not a fantasy, I’ve done this in India before. You go to a gold smith, and what do they do? They take the gold, and they burn it under the lamp, and it’s covered in black suit (?), they wipe it off, and that’s what so called touchstone is. And you scrape it against that, and there is a way of determining what it’s actual value is. So without becoming acquainted with what it is, and the means of understanding and verifying what this substance is, then one is not in a position to represent it or to make determinations with others. In either direction, good or bad. Therefore, we’re told, you have to put  yourself under the guidance of a vaiṣṇava, a substantial vaiṣṇava, who can  determine, assess properly what is valuable and what is not valuable, what is substantial, what is not substantial, what is imitation, and what is real. Back to Saraswati Thakur, hundred cautions, it won’t be this, it won’t be that, this is your check-list, so when you see those things, if he says, “An actual rasik-vaisnava in Rupanuga-line, will never give rasa-siksa to someone who hasn’t the adhikar or capacity to receive it.” “Oh, but there is this one who is doing it.” Oh, but then you look at your check-list and go, “Well, according to Saraswati Thakur, he must not be a rasik-vaisnav in the Rupanuga-line, and he’s doing something which is criminal.” That’s a determination that he is making. It’s one example, but there are many. 

So in general, we say, in dealing with other people, what is the general rule? Tṛṇādapisu-nīcenatarorivasahiṣṇunāamānināmāna-dena…To be humble, tolerant, offer respect to others, but when some ignorant people heard, thinking the Mayapur, Chandradoy Mandir, there are so many Americans there, and they have so much money, the rumors spread that the Deity is made out of gold, solid gold. So they wanted to steal Radharani and maybe Krishna, they are both like that. They’ve heard, they are solid gold, and when they came, the leaders of the time defended the Deities, even with weapons. So some people came to Guru Maharaj and they said, “They are not following Mahaprabhu’s teaching of being humble, tolerant and offering respect to others.” But Guru Maharaj said, “No I supported them saying, “Tṛṇādapisu-nīcena to who? You’ve come to molest the Deity and the vaiṣṇava, and then I will practice humility? No, with full force I will defend the Deity, the vaiṣṇava.”

So again there is a famous saying, acharyavanpurushoveda, one who is connection with an acharya, knows what is what, otherwise if we lack discerning ability, discriminating ability or are not in connection with someone who has such ability, then we’ll be likely o misjudge, misread. So then it would be better for us to just be generally respectful and not make such determination. But as once after asked so many questions, Srila Guru Maharaj turned to the group of devotees and said, “Can I ask you a question?” “Sure” “What is Krishna Consciousness?” And one person said, “Uh, it’s what Prabhupad taught us.” That was a good answer. And then someone else said, “Uh, bhakti.” And Guru Maharaj … said, “Did he say anything about Krishna?”, little teasing. And then Guru Maharaj stopped the whole thing and said, “It is reality, it’s reality. And it’s in your interest to become acquainted with that reality.” NILAMANI BLUE SAPPHIRES 

So back to this point. How do you determine what is actual gold? Thailand is famous for the Nilamani, the blue sapphire. But you could go to a place, if you go to a jeweler, they could show you a palmful of blue sapphires, a hundred of them. Let’s just say they do for example. One of them is worth thirty five thousand dollars. One of them is worth thirty five hundred dollars, and one of them is worth thirty five dollars. Which is which? So someone will say and rightfully from their perspective, “Well, they all look nice to me.” That’s not untrue, cause still they all look nice. Some else may not care, “What’s the difference?” There is that type level of understanding also. But someone who is in the market for blue sapphires it’s in there interest either they need to become acquainted with how to identify, assess, value blue sapphires, or they’ve got to be in connection with somebody who does, or what’s going to happen? They are going to be cheated. So a thirty five dollar blue sapphire they are going to be told that it’s worth thirty five thousand. 

So, the only this will help either become acquainted with it under the guidance. Visvanath Chakravarti Thakur in his commentary of tenth canto of Srimad Bhagavatam has an enigmatic expression at one point, he asked the readers to forgive him for becoming a jeweler. As if he is like a mundane and like, “Oh, I’ve become a jewel merchant, forgive me.” But what he is saying indirectly is that he is selecting so many jewels, gems, gem-like interpretations of slokas, and presenting them to everyone.” That’s what it is. Krishna is known as Nilamani. Rupa Goswami wrote a book, called, Ujjvala-nilamani, this blazing, brilliant, blue sapphire to make any comparative analysis, as I told before in a currency example. Every day it changes, what is the value of currencies, but they have to have some standard to measure these things against, to find out this one is going up in value, this one is going down. Or fifty of these make one of those, or five hundred of these make one of those. 

What do we hear? rāmarāmetirāmeti
ramerāmemanorame
sahasra-nāmabhistulyaṁ
rāma-nāmavarānaneIt’s says in one place, sahasra-nāma, one thousand names of Vishnu is equal to Ram, one Ram-nam, but then so many Ram-nams do one Krishna-nam. So it’s not that we’re concocting these things. There are ways to determine that. So in dealing with the plurality of currencies, someone shows up with their money, if that’s your job, then of course you don’t want to insult the clients, the clientele, “Yes, we will happily accept your…” And they present something, and they may be surprised, “Oh, it only yields one of these.” That means quantity and quality. KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS IS ALL ABOUT GRADATION

So Krishna Consciousness really is all about gradation, which means understanding superior and inferior. We are told, John Hick, a Christian theologian, he said, “Christianity is on the verge of a Copernican revolution.”Meaning just like before Copernicus they thought, “The Earth is the center, it’s geocentric system, and the Sun and so many planets are orbiting the Earth.” Then Copernicus came along, declared a heretic in the beginning, that he is saying, “Actually it’s a solar system, heliocentric. The Sun is in the center, and the Earth is one of many planets, orbiting that Sun.” So John Hick, this Christian theologian, said, “Christianity is on the verge of a Copernican revolution, meaning up to this point we thought, “This is the central God conception and there are so many others in remote orbit.” He said, “No, what you’re about to find out is this is one of the plurality of theistic conceptions orbiting the central truth, the Supreme Reality.” So then for those who want to make a comparative analysis, like someone could say, “Well, oh, all alluring (?) orbit, and all are planets, you can find similarities.” But if someone wants to start finding a gradation, then they will have to become acquainted with the central conception and then see how it’s reflected into the satellites. Qualitative assessment.

So the analysis of rasa is inevitable, shanta, dasa, sakhya, vatsalya, madhura. We’re told madhura-rasa, contains all the others. It’s mukhya-rasa, adi, the original, all other rasas are satellites of madhura-rasa, and that’s in line with the central conception of the Absolute, the ultimate reality is Radha and Krishna. So how far are Radha and Krishna, the Supreme Reality, remember we’re dealing with Reality, it’s another way of looking at that. How far are they reflected into other theistic systems. And they say, “You should love with your whole heart, your soul, etc.” Alright, good, and that God, what does He look like? Is He alone? What does He do? Where does He live?” That seems to be a natural question. This God that we should love with our whole heart and soul and everything, do you have a picture of Him? Show me what He look like.” Like if said, “There is this girl, and you going to love her with your whole heart and soul, and the first thing you’ll ask, “Can I see her?” “Well, no.” That would be offensive. I mean it’s common sense. 

Why do you think, why is it called Facebook? Why? Does it have anything to do with faces? Maybe. Looking at faces and saying, “I like this face, and this one I don’t like as much.” Facebook. So people want a social work net with God, but no pictures. Why? Why are they afraid? Is God married? Does He have a girlfriend? Is He in a relationship? Relationship status. Complicated. This is what Guru Maharaj says about taking (?) with spiritual common sense. I can sit here, we can quote so many Scriptures, verses, etc. but also just use your common sense too. There is another liker as we speak. Prabhupad, the Krishna book is so beautiful, and remember lady artist, Devahuti, she made that painting, still very beautiful painting of Radha and Krishna. What was Prabhupad saying in the beginning? This is very similar, he says, “When people see a book,” I mean, he is trying to really make it simple for people, so what’s he called the book? Krishna. The Krishna Book. And what did he say in the beginning? “When people see a book like Krishna, the cover, they immediately ask, “Who is Krishna and who is the girl with Krishna?” If you can answer those two questions, you can understand the Supreme Reality, and any other type of Reality. And then you can learn how to measure this reality against that one. You see how relationship driven, (?) we are in this world, learn from it. It must be there in the original. 

Once when one of Gurudev servitors did something wrong, Gurudev’s sense of humor and also some statements he made, that are little like, “Wow!” He said, “If Krishna is like that, then what to speak of us?”So this is the driving principle of existence, so, to what degree is it accommodated in theistic systems. So for the most part religion is there is a male God, and a feminine aspect is underserved, underrepresented, to put it mildly. Then what do people think to compensate for that? “Yes, so we worship the Goddess.” Just to go in the other direction. THE CENTRAL CONCEPTION OF THE ABSOLUTEBut the only balanced, fully balanced, complete expression of Divinity is in Bhagavan, meaning, Shakti – Shaktiman, meaning feminine aspect and male aspect, the Supreme female and the Supreme male. And then their aishvarya-pastime, Lakshmi-Narayan, where we find two and a half rasas, shanta, dasya, and in the case of some old time servitors, approaching friendship. So two and a half. Go to Ayodhya, and you have all five are there. Shanta, dasya, there is brother and friend, and vatsalya, and madhura. But remember this is seva, so conjugal seva is in Ayodhya is exclusive to Sita. And it’s interesting to just point it out, there is a Deity, Balaji. It’s worshipped in South India. And the opposite of the Krishna trick on Radharani and Vraja-gopi, where he pushes out two more arms to make four. Balaji is doing, he has four, he is trying to keep the two. But Guru Maharaj laughed and said, “But there are no youngsters in Vaikuntha.” Anyway. In Ayodhya, so much so, that conjugal seva restricted to Sita, that in her absence, after she is banished (?) to Valmiki’s ashram, Ramachandra must perform as an ideal King he is doing sacrifice, you need your wife at your side. When you do this types of yagyas, so yagya Sitas were commissioned, murtis of Sita. And to give some hint of the beauty of Ramachandra, the yagya Sita became animate, and they expressed erotic sentiments toward Ramachandra, and they were told, “Your desire will be fulfilled when I come as Krishna in Krishna-lila, but this is beyond the purview of Ayodhya and Ram-lila.”

As also the danda-karanya rishis, they didn’t openly express but felt some particular thing in their heart they were, uh, it was also indicated to them that also their desires will be fulfilled, in Krishna-lila. So only Krishna-lila is ultimately all accommodating. The highest expression, the full spectral range of all possible loving expression, also including parakiya-bhav, which is the predominating divine sentiment of GolokaVrindavan, expressed in Radharani and Vraja-gopies as paramour love. But as Gurudev and Guru Maharaj have pointed out, from Jashoda, how is parakiya-bhav expressed there. When she hears rumors that Krishna is not her son, she hears rumors that Krishna is a son of Devaki and Vasudev, or cowherd boys they hear, say, “People say Gopal is not one of us.” “What? Our Gopal?” “Yes. They are saying he is God, descended, or maybe God Himself.” “Gopal?” “Yes, Gopal.” So that’s how it is realized with cowherd boys and in vatsalya-rasa it has more extensive position. Vṛndāraṇyaṁsva-pada-ramaṇaṁprāviśadgīta-kīrtiḥ.

Goloka, at the touch of the lotus feet of Krishna, the Earth, which we generally take to be in shanta-rasa, is shivering in conjugal ecstasy. So what is not impossible in that plane? So again Srila Saraswati Thakur, he is thinking, somehow or other bring people in connection with this and they will become transformed, but they will become transformed coming in touch with the actual substance.That you have to understand properly. Not that we do some wild adulterated, bring people in touch with that, that will not transform them. Pujala raga-pathagaurava-bhange, matalahari-janavisaya range, the reason Gurudev asked Guru Maharaj permission to change this line, is vishaya, in Bengali it means, it could be understood to mean something mundane, but Guru Maharaj selected the English word “bait”, like use bait to catch a fish. So he is saying the vishaya-range it means some bait is used. So professor Sanyal writes a book called The Erotic Principle and Unalloyed Devotion, so people thinking, “Oh, I am interested in erotic principle, let me read this book.” And then they go, “Oh.” It’s not exactly what they were thinking, what they had in mind. But he is using erotic, erotic principle, to bring them in and bring them in touch with this substance, he is not in that book, talking different types of erotic things or mundane eroticism. But just in the title he is baiting.WHERE WAS MAHAMANTRA FIRST REVEALED?

Any other question?

Q: Yes, we have question from Tereza de Mole…

GM: That’s TapanaNandiniDidi in Mexico.

Q: And the question is where was the first revelation of Mahamantra? Where was the Mahamantra first revealed?

GM: Well, it can be an esoteric question. Because we take this, as Gurudev like to say, it’s a transcendental sound vibration form of the Lord. So it means it’s concomitant to his own existence. And as Guru Maharaj has expressed elsewhere, “Evolution means gradual expression of what’s already there”. So in this world, if you want to say, in different places, it’s mentioned in Kali-SaṇṭāraṇaUpaniṣad. And this place and that place. But our primary concern is with the pastimes of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, so the current emphasis on Hare Krishna Mahamantra, comes from Mahaprabhu and His divine paraphernalia. Just as Guru Maharaj would say, srikrishnachaitanyaprabhunityanandasriadvaitagadadharasrivasadigaurabhaktavrinda. Let’s use this as an example. That’s not written in any book. Guru Maharaj said, it comes from Mahaprabhu and His paraphernalia, meaning the Pancha-tattva. So the where, the when is all superficial. Netihasanakalpanam, it’s not a historic occurrence, neither it is imaginary. It’s just descending into this plane with the Supreme Lord and His paraphernalia. Yes. SPONTANEOUS LOVE AND SENSE CONTROL

Q: I wanted to ask about spontaneous love and sense control. So how to understand that they exist together…

GM: Okay, without controlled senses there is no question of spontaneous love. 

Q: But this seems to be a paradox.

GM: No, it’s completely makes sense. If someone’s senses dhira, this sloka says, 

vikrīḍitaṁvraja-vadhūbhiridaṁcaviṣṇoḥ
śraddhānvito ’nuśṛṇuyādathavarṇayedyaḥ
bhaktiṁparāṁbhagavatipratilabhyakāmaṁ
hṛd-rogamāśvapahinotyacireṇadhīraḥ (SB 10.33.39)

So hrd-rogam means heart disease, expressed in uncontrolled senses, so without the senses being relatively controlled, that one is going to express raga-bhakti, that means spontaneous love here, raga-marg, no we’re back to Saraswati Thakur’s cautions, he says, “If this is not there at the basis, then they are may be telling that this is spontaneous love, but it is mundane, cause the senses are not controlled. So they are taking divine things and making them in his words “vulture food.” Saying that senses are like vultures. So without, if the senses are under the control of lust, then there is no question of expressing spontaneous love, which means here raga-bhaki, raga-marg. So there is the viddhi-marg, they have to gradually come under control. Then from that position, dhira, undisturbed, no sense disturbance, then when they hear the divine pastimes of Radharani, Krishna and Vraja-gopies, that will awaken spontaneous love, loving sentiments within them. Otherwise under the influence of lust, ātmendriya-prīti-vāñchā — tārebali ‘kāma’kṛṣṇendriya-prīti-icchādhare ‘prema’ nām(Chaitanya-charitāmṛta:Adi, 4.165). We will project that our experience of mundane love, we will project that as being, we’ll impose that idea on spontaneous love, of raga-bhaktas, and that’s an offense against divinity to think that pastimes are mundane. Like mundane affairs between men and women.

So why is SukadevGoswami, the speaker of the Bhagavatam. Cause he’s first certified as attained (?), he has no interest in mundane love affairs between men and women, his senses are under control. And in that state hearing about the pastimes of Radha and Krishna, spontaneous love, raga-bhakti, has awakened in him, and he appreciates that, so it’s to show that they are two different things. One is egocentric, the other one is theocentric. Atmendriya, to satisfy one’s misconceived self, kṛṣṇendriya, to satisfy the senses of Krishna. Hṛṣīkeṇahṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁbhaktirucyate (Chaitanya-charitāmṛta: Madhya, 19.170), devotion, what to speak of raga-bhakti, means at its basis, beginning, middle and end it’s for Krishna. That’s the purpose, of the why, why anything is being done. It’s envisioned from the beginning for the pleasure of Krishna. And by extension His devotees. Not that, “I am thinking something about myself, and then I realize that and I am going to share part of what I achieved with Krishna.” That’s not Krishna-bhakti. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁjñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam, it has no connection with jñānaand karmā. Anukūlyenakṛṣṇānu-śīlanaṁ, it’s what’s lila-anukul orkṛṣṇānu-śīlanaṁ, favorable to Krishna, not, “Oh, I like doing this. I like doing this within Krishna Consciousness.” And we see the idea that someone whose senses are completely out of control, they will hear the pastimes of Radha and Krishna and that will somehow cure them of their lust as/is a God Delusion. Sraddhānvito ’nuśṛṇuyād, said with faith, ’nuśṛṇuyād, hearing from proper authorities. 

Some person came to Gurudev in Vrindavan, talking about manjaris, and this and that, and the other thing. And Gurudev was, first of all he said, he didn’t know anything about it. But the man insisted, and it was like English is his second language, and he is saying. And Gurudev is pleading (?) ignorance of all of us. And then he is saying, “No, Krishna and little girls.” That’s what he said. And Gurudev went, “Oh, Prabhu, I can understand Krishna having loving pastimes with older girls, but with little girls, this is too much.” Please, and he cut off, he said something in relation to the Guru-varga. And he said, “That’s all they told me. If they tell me anything more, I’ll get back to you.” 

Read Chaitanya-charitamrtam, they are not just stories, it’s a perfect expression of the ultimate reality and how to make your approach. So we hear in the Antya-lila, Pradhyumna Mishra, he goes to Mahaprbahu, to hear Krishna-katha, sri Krishna Chaitanyaradha Krishna naheanya, Radha and Krishna combined, Radha-bhavasubalitam, Krishna enveloped in the heart and halo of Radharani. Pradhyumna Mishra, a qualified devotee, asks Sri ChaitanyaMahaprabhu, “Can you tell me about Krishna, Krishna-katha.” And what does Mahaprabhu say? Krishna-kathaamijnanana, like Gurudev, “I don’t know.” He said, “But, I know who does, and that is Ramananda.” I heard from him. You can hear from him. You have my approval, permission and recommendation. Go hear from Ramananda.” This story, it’s not just a story, in its pastimes, perfectly constructed. Then what happened, he goes to see Ramananda, and we’re told. What is Ramananda doing at that time? He has written a play, called Jagannath-vallabh-natak, a drama. Who is JagannathVallabha? Anyway. And there are girls known as dev-dasi. And from their childhood, they belong to the Deity. And they are meant for the pleasure of the Deity. So Ramananda Ray is teaching these two girls how to enact this play he’s written. And because they will need to express by gesture and movement and dance ecstatic emotions, he who, we should remind everyone at this point, he is Vishakha Sakhi of Lalita-Vishakha. So Vishakha, (?) when this verse comes here is how you will express it. In this way. But they need to be trained and cared for. So what are we told. At that time Ramananda is massaging their bodies with oil and they are naked. So these girls, they are naked, he is massaging their bodies with oil including the private parts of their bodies. Sri Krishna ChaitanyaMahaprabhu, the sannyasi, told Pradyumna Mishra, “You should hear from the grihastha, Ramananda,who is massaging the naked bodies of two dancing girls, that’s who you should hear Krishna-katha from. 

So then we could think, “Well, is this not the violation of what we just spoke fifteen minutes ago?” That’s what Pradyumna Mishra is thinking, on some level his mind is disturbed, his heart is disturbed, he is somewhat confused. But the attendant finally Ramananda comes and says, “How may I serve you?” And at this point he says, “I just wanted your darshan. Now that’s been achieved, my dandavats.” And he goes. Then he meets Mahaprahu again and then Mahaprabhu said, “Did you hear Krishna-katha from Ramananda?” And he is saying, “Oh, no I just gave my dandavats.” But Mahaprabhu can understand that there is some doubt, some apprehension at his mind, and he tells him that Ramananda, is aprakrtta, aprakrtta-deho, it appears as though he is embodied, that he is a human being, embodied, but he is not. He doesn’t have even a trace amount of exploiting tenden within him. And his body is cent-per-cent spiritual. And then to underscore his position further, Mahaprabhu says as a sannyasi, “If I hear the name of a woman I gather reaction internally (?), if I see a statue of a woman, representation form of a woman, it can disturb my mind, but not Ramananda. So you go and hear from him.” So both things were dealt with here, that yes, Pradhyumna Mishra went away taking him that, “If this is a man, who is having mundane relationships with women, we are not to hear Krishna-katha from him.” That’s shouldn’t be lost (?), rightfully he’s saying, “If that is the case, then he is right to withdraw to not hear from someone who’s senses are full of lust, and the most intense type of lust, which is sexual.” 

But Mahaprabhu is telling him, “That’s not the case with Ramananda.” He in fact is so far beyond it all. He has a divine form, he doesn’t have a mundane body, he doesn’t have a trace amount of exploiting tendency, so much so, that he can massage these naked girls with his own hands, including their private parts, and there is nothing untoward about it. And that’s the person, who is taken to be the raga-marga-diksha-guru of Mahaprabhu. And before someone says, “Oh, I know someone like that.” Really? Mahaprabhu says to Pradyumna Mishra, ek Ramananda. There aren’t two. “So you go and hear from him.” So he returns with this kind of recommendation from Mahaprabhu. And Ramananda says, “What service can I do for you?” And he says, “Oh, I would like to hear Krishna-katha from you.” And Ramananda, “What type of Krishna-katha?” He said, “Oh, what you told Mahaprabhu on the banks of the Godavari river. I’d like to hear that.” And we’re told Ramananda begins in the morning, speaks to the afternoon, they are not eating, into the late afternoon and to the early evening. So he engages in some intense Krishna-katha for maybe 8 – 10 hours. Vikrīḍitaṁvraja-vadhūbhiridaṁcaviṣṇoḥ.

So some sahajiyas would say, “You say, first become cured of the disease, then you can take a medicine.” Gurudev had a nice response to this. He said, “No, the topics of Radha and Krishna, and their divine pastimes with vraja-gopis are the ultimate medicine, no doubt. We know, that Gurudev was fascinated by homeopathic medicine. He said, “Just like as homeopathic medicine, you have to identify not only what is the medicine, but what is the potency then that dosage of that potency of that medicine, and he added to that, “And your time for healing must have arrived.” A SNAKE BITE OF SEPARATION FROM KRISHNAAnd my own example based upon what I’ve heard from Guru Maharaj and the Scriptures, is that sometimes separation is compared to a snake bite, having being beaten by cobra. That type of suffering. Now, we would say, “Well, what is the cure for that?” Is cobra venom. The antidote is made from that substance, but it only has that effect when you’re suffering from snake bite.  So really when someone is afflicted really and truly feeling separation from Krishna, they can’t tolerate it any more. Not out of curiosity or fantasy. But someone, his heart cannot tolerate being separated from Krishna. To that afflicted heart this will be the antidote, it will be the cure for their suffering heart. 

 tavakathāmṛtaṁtapta-jīvanaṁ
kavibhirīḍitaṁkalmaṣāpaham
śravaṇa-maṅgalaṁśrīmadātataṁ
bhuvigṛṇantiyebhūri-dājanāḥ(Śrīmad Bhāgavatam: 10.31.9)

That’s the method employed by the Vraja-gopis. And this should be noted, all suffering is due to separation from Krishna. All suffering. Whether it’s the suffering of the conditioned souls, or the anguish of separation, experienced in the heart of the vraja-gopis.  The cause of all suffering is being separated from Krishna. And a cure for separation from Krishna is to hear about Him from His devotees. And then to kirttan, reproduce what we’ve heard from is devotees. Sravanam, kirttanam.śrotavyaḥkīrtitavyaścasmartavyaścecchatābhayam (SB: 2.1.5). Sukadev tells this to Parikshit Maharaj in the very beginning. So under all circumstances śrotavyaḥ kīrtitavyaśca smartavyaścecchatābhayam, hear about Krishna, glorify Krishna, remember Krishna, then you have no fear, nothing to worry about. Everything will be alright. Hare Krishna.